Marseilles' World : Orthodox or Heterodox?

Parzival

Marseilles World: Orthodox or Heterodox?

An interesting range of perspective, trying to get at this enigmatic ultimate image of the Marseilles Tarot. I like your answer to the question,Fulgour : un-orthodox. Important to my vision of XXI is the wreath mandorla rather than the glowing,resplendent aura around Christ, a beautiful,mystical image central to Western art. This is a Dancing Anima Mundi within the natural world, not above it or transcendently ascending it . Spirit-Body immanent, amidst nature and the zodiac.
If it is the New Jerusalem, it is where we are.
 

Tarotphelia

Re: Re: Marseilles' World

Diana said:
Frank, this has also always struck me. Some people also say it is an androgynous creature, but I see no androgony there at all. I see a woman. It is curious....

Diana, what a naughty girl you are !!

There are many little inconsistencies in the Marseilles deck and we tend to ignore them .

If we compare the lady on the World card to the Devil , which is plainly androgenous, we do see a big difference. Clearly, the artist knows how to portray the shapeless form and ambiguous facial features of androgyny. Neither is he shy about showing both sets of sexual characteristics. But he certainly doesn't do that in the World card.

There is nothing about the World lady that is not feminine. Other early decks have some kind of shabby male figure in her place, which seems to me like a possible CORRECTION of something other printers found controversial or not in keeping with what they wanted there.

This is a very interesting quote taken from a studious tarot site listed below, made even more interesting because the author is dedicated to Christain associations :

"There are other known examples of feminine Christ figures in medieval art, but none like this. As with other unique images in the trump cycle, it suggests either a corrupt copy of earlier models, or conflation of different subjects."

http://www.geocities.com/cartedatrionfi/Pictures.html

He of course, assumes this model is an incorrect one, and not the reverse.

In his recent tarot lectures on net radio, author Whitley Strieber has called the lady on the World card of the Marseilles deck the same female figure who is in the Star card. He says the Star is the Queen of the Witches, though I am not yet sure how he comes to that conclusion. It is very interesting though.

He also says the 4 figures at the edges represent the riddle of the Sphinx .

I myself have previously wondered if the Christian symbolism of other artifacts was not originally something pagan with Christian figures subsequently imposed upon it, as was frequently done.

Returning now to whomever created this image, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't trying to say the female form was his personal idea of heaven, and about as much heaven as any fool was going to find on earth. Sort of thumbing his nose at all the pious promises handed out by the church , which sometimes sold passes into heaven to anybody.

So, if we keep an open mind and are willing to look, I am sure many interesting interpretations of this card may come to light.
 

ihcoyc

Re: Marseilles World: Orthodox or Heterodox?

Frank Hall said:
If it is the New Jerusalem, it is where we are.

Of course. Then again, "the kingdom of God is within you."
 

Fulgour

re: more than either/or

Fulgour said:
Heterodox, or for simplicity, un-Orthodox, soley versus
Orthodox, meaning conforming to established doctrine,
presents a most peculiar question regarding XXI Le Monde,
and perhaps more importantly, le Tarot de Marseille itself.
In my opinion, Tarot is Anti Church and State violence.
I was asked privately to explain my reference to
Anti Church and State violence. My willing reply:


Hello _______ ,

Filling in the blanks is kind of a hobby of mine, and history provides
a wealth of opportunities. As often as we see people wondering what
the tarot may be about, it is seldom asked why it came into existence
in the first place, and flourished despite its obviously revolutionary
content. My views, however, are not part of any agenda, my motives
are simple and open. I like the truth. And after all, in regard to the
question of anti-violence re church and state, isn't it always the latest
version of the church and state that make the most of reforms?

I'll leave it to others to outline the grand schemes, and content myself
to speak my mind as I see fit whenever I find it appropriate to do so.
The true church, like the true state, is the people, people who live
and work and serve, as must we all.

Sincerely,
Fulgour



edited for composition