Rider-Waite Symbolism

SunChariot

Rosanne said:
I find this a very odd statement.
Of course you are free to see whatever you want in a symbol- that does not mean symbols can mean anything you want them to mean.
Although the full explanation of a symbol cannot be captured within the bounds of a written word/s- there is a traditional way of explaining many symbols that is almost an International language on it's own. Of course how you apply that symbolic language within the reading is limitless. A Hand is a symbol- but it clenched into a fist does not mean the same as an palm up open hand. If an Owl was on the Fool card would you think foolishness? I think you need to have a working understanding of Tarot symbols.
~Rosanne


Most people do assiciate Owls with wisdom because our society does, and I'd imagine that most of us have no real experieince with owls and thus no basis to create a personal experinece with it. I know I personally have never come in contact with a real owl, except maybe in a zoo once.

Personal symbolism comes into play more from personal life experience. What one sees in a card, if you don't study symbolism, is what comes up instincitively. In cases where you actually have no personal experieince of the thing, the only thing that comes up might be the meaning most people would get. But in cases where you do have a personal assocociation with the object, what comes up will be personal.

Even though, yes if I saw an owl on a card I would likely thnk wisdom, for the above reasons, it did not require any study of symbolism for that thought to come up. It is already a part of my way of thinking. If not an original part. But I did not have to study symbolism in any way for that thought to come up,It just comes up on its own.

Well I don't mean symbols can mean anything you want them to mean so much as they can mean anything at all that you feel they mean.

It's not like I decide randomly in my mind for no real reason that chocolate means monkeys. There would be no purpose to doing that. But if in a reading I see chocololate and the first thing that comes to my mind is monkeys, then the chocolate in the card image means monkeys for the purpse of that reading. It's about feeligns and instinct, not thinking things out. It may have a completely different meaning the next time, it means the first thing that comes to mind on a particular occasion (with no thougth involved). At least that is how I read.

In the same vein, a clenched hand does not of course mean the same thing as an open hand. But a clenched hand in a card image does not have to mean the same thing each time we see it either. One time it might feel like it means anger, another time like someone has something to hide (what is that person holding so tightly in his hand that he doesn't want others to see?), another time it might mean fear....like the person's muscles are drawn tight with fear and they are afraid to open up and let others see who they really are inside (we can't see the inside./palm of a hand that is clenched)...or there are many other things we can see in that same hand in that same card image. Each time we can see different things.

For me anyway, I never studied Tarot (or any other) symbolism and it has not hurt my readings one bit.

Babs
 

Teheuti

Symbols represent "both/and". They are usually described as having at least three levels:
1) personal
2) cultural (including micro-cultures that outsiders wouldn't necessarily get, for instance, Masonic imagery)
3) cross-cultural/archetypal

Some cultures perceive owls as wise, others as harbingers of evil, but all - as their being powerful entities of the night. One person may think of an owl as a personal and loving guide, while another was traumatized as a child when she saw an owl kill her kitten.

Since my reading style is to ask people to describe the cards, I've heard thousands of people, many who've never looked at tarot cards before, speak their impressions of the RWS cards—in depth. What I do is compare and contrast their impressions with standard symbolism (and I may mention this or not).

For instance, if someone sees the streams of water being poured in the Star card as wasteful, then I might ask myself—how could something that's normally hopeful and regenerative be wasteful in this person's situation? (Of course, other cards in the spread might clarify this.)

One of the magical aspects of a tarot card is that you can access its energy at any level. Once a person has identified with some aspect of the card, it's possible to sift levels within the card itself—to access it at a different vibrational level. Once a new level of awareness is reached, there are usually shifts in the outer circumstances that match this new consciousness—that's magic. Rather than dictating these shifts I try to assist people in reaching them for themselves. For instance, I might ask the person what the bird on the bush in the Star card thinks of the wasteful actions (or the star). And then I might ask that person what the bird recommends that the star-maiden do.

There's absolutely no need for me to negate the person's experience by saying, "No, she's not being wasteful; this card is all about tranquility, hope and regeneration and the waters are gifts of the Spirit." Instead, I want to understand why she feels she is wasting potential gifts of the Spirit, without blaming her in any way.

Periodically asking where these things are going on in the person's own life allows them to make connections to specific circumstances and come to their own realizations.

I'm not saying you have to read cards this way, but am simply presenting an example of how very personal reactions to symbols can work in a reading and how I might compare and contrast the unusual with the usual meanings.
 

SunChariot

I find that truly interesting, fascinating even. I've never heard or thougth of that, letting the querent describe what they see in the card and using their personal symbolism in the reading. It sounds like a great idea!

Babs
 

Rosanne

Well I use your book every time I get a new deck. It has most likely been the most valuable Tarot book I have Teheuti!
I also get a bit tired of this knocking the reading of books for information about Tarot- nothing wrong with been armed with information for or against what you feel.
I also bring the querent into the conversation about the cards and their response, but this is what I meant....

Teheuti said:
What I do is compare and contrast their impressions with standard symbolism (and I may mention this or not).
You need to know something about the symbolism to do this. I agree about the Owl- that is why the question mark- but symbols are international in a way and many instinctively know their meaning for we do not live in a vacuum- right from school and before, the Wise Owl is plainly seen- but here in my country the native Owl is the Harbinger of Death.

~Rosanne
 

Teheuti

Personally, I think a serious tarot reader, who really wants to understand the cards, should read everything possible on symbolism. Without that you are missing out on so many of the options and possibilities that the cards can present and will also miss out on many of the life and personality patterns that a spread mirrors. Understanding the many levels of a symbol is key to consciously working the magical potential of a card.

As I quote in 21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card in my chapter on symbols:

"Symbols are fundamental concepts for energy exchanges between very different levels of living." William Gray, Magical Ritual Methods
and

"The psychological mechanism for transforming energy is the symbol." C. G. Jung, On Psychic Energy.

In my book I discuss symbol groups, which makes it easier to grasp overall concepts first and then get into specifics. The chapter on archetypes helps make it clear how symbols play a part in archetypal myths, roles and other life motifs. The example of Jessica's Myth shows how the symbol of a tower offers a whole range of possibilities and, in her case, points to a couple of specific myths that reflect her life situation. These show how her circumstances are powerful and deeply meaningful, and they show where she is likely headed, while the variations offer a variety of options for the future.

You can read tarot without knowing all these things, but you'll miss a lot of what makes a deck come alive (actually seem to shimmer and vibrate) and which help it operate on a truly magical level.
 

SunChariot

I've never felt that Tarot was lacking in any pure vibrancy or magic for me...It is chock full of both for me.

Anyway, in case anyone thought I was knocking books or using them...that was not my intent. All ways are equally valid if they get you to the same place....Just saying that books are not the only way as this post started by the poster saying that they had overdosed a bit on books and it was not working all that well for them, just offering an alternative.

I would never knock someone else's path anyway, as that is personal and has to be felt in teh soul what that is for each person...

Those are my feelings anyway,

Babs
 

Teheuti

SilverWolf said:
Ok, I'm studying the Rider-Waite Tarot, and I'm reading The Pictorial Key to the Tarot by AE Waite. However, something is bothering me, he uses a good deal of Christian terminology. Would it be wrong of me to substitute some of hte terminology that he uses when talking about the symbology of the tarot cards with terminology that I'm more comfortable with, ie the gods, instead of God.
Back to the original question. I like to substitute all kinds of things - she instead of he; Goddess or gods instead of God, etc. But use critical judgment when you do this as some statements will translate and others won't. You can learn a lot just from which do and which don't. Surprisingly Waite & Smith are not terribly sexist (especially for the time) and most of the Christian-talk is really meant in a mystical sense of union with the Divine. He was not at all into organized religion. Waite's style is extremely pretentious and pedantic but the book is much deeper and more specific than it seems at first. If it doesn't work for you now, check back in a couple of years.

BTW, PKT is not at all essential to working with the RWS deck. There are other more accessible books ranging from Eden Gray to Rachel Pollack and my own The Complete Book of Tarot Reversals (that includes a lot on the upright cards). But PKT has much to offer and was read thoroughly by the people I mentioned.
 

mejenks

Livening up an old thread... In looking at the Temperance card (Rider-Waite deck), you can clearly see the Hebrew word for God in the folds of the gown. This type of symbolism isn't found in a book...or is it? Does anyone know of a book that would get to the minute details of symbolism for the Rider Waite deck? They say everything in this deck means something, and I'd like to find an all-inclusive encyclopedia if it's available. Thanks..
 

rwcarter

Livening up an old thread... In looking at the Temperance card (Rider-Waite deck), you can clearly see the Hebrew word for God in the folds of the gown. This type of symbolism isn't found in a book...or is it? Does anyone know of a book that would get to the minute details of symbolism for the Rider Waite deck? They say everything in this deck means something, and I'd like to find an all-inclusive encyclopedia if it's available. Thanks..

I don't believe there is a single definitive resource for what you want. Hopefully someone will post to prove me wrong, cause I'm interested in the same thing. There are many books (the Amberstone's book comes immediately to mind) that talk about the symbolism of the Rider Waite, but I don't believe any of them go into minute detail.

Rodney
 

Richard

Livening up an old thread... In looking at the Temperance card (Rider-Waite deck), you can clearly see the Hebrew word for God in the folds of the gown. This type of symbolism isn't found in a book...or is it? Does anyone know of a book that would get to the minute details of symbolism for the Rider Waite deck? They say everything in this deck means something, and I'd like to find an all-inclusive encyclopedia if it's available. Thanks..
The name on the angel's gown is mentioned in Pollack's 78 Degrees of Wisdom, but I don't know of any book that has an exhaustive analysis of all the minute details. The reason for this is fairly obvious. Again consider Temperance. In place of the sun in the sky, there is an outline of a glowing crown, but on the angel's head there is a glyph of the sun. For anyone sufficiently familiar with the Qabalistic Tree of Life, the symbolism is obvious, but a book for general consumption would need to provide some background material on the Tree. Also, the mixing of the fluids in the cups is a reference to the Great Work of spiritual alchemy, which would require another page or two of explanation, and even that would probably be inadequate. Inclusion of all such details could easily cause the book to grow to such a size that it would be impractical for the mass market.

There is a fairly recent book on the Rider-Waite which purports to explain 'everything you ever wanted to know about the Rider-Waite,' but advertising hype has a tendency to indulge in gross exaggeration.