critique

gregory

Actually - I don't think it's her art that draws out the posts about her (except how all the cards look the same - which would be something legit and reasonable to mention - and which she might need to hear) so much as what she represents to us and the manner of her self-publicity. So if there were posts about her PhD and so on on a creation thread, the mods could and should pull them as OT.
 

GryffinSong

I've refrained from comment on many, many deck creation threads, because of my perception that the artists were not taking constructive critique in the spirit in which it was intended, in other words, in a productive manner. Every deck can be improved. Every. Single. One. And critique is different than criticism. If an artist asks for feedback, I have no interest whatsoever in telling them their work is crap. That's not helpful at all, and it would be a rare deck indeed that had NO positive aspects to it.

All of us can learn. All of us can grow. And speaking as an artist myself, I appreciate honest, constructive feedback. Sure it can sting if it comes out of left field. But I take it in, I look at the piece again, and usually I learn something. Whether I do anything about it is my choice. But as long as the reviewer offers constructive feedback, I always appreciate it.

Constructive feedback good. Destructive feedback bad.

But if an artist can't seem to take it, I'm not going to offer it.

Edited to add: Giving good, constructive, detailed critique can take A LOT of time. That's part of why I choose carefully whether to bother. If the artist isn't taking it well, why should I give of my time and energy?
 

Zephyros

I don't remember who it was or when it was said, I think it was someone in the posts I linked to, that Aeclectic has gotten a reputation for being full of nonobjective, uncritical cheer leaders. Does anyone think that's true?
 

gregory

GryffinSong said:
I've refrained from comment on many, many deck creation threads, because of my perception that the artists were not taking constructive critique in the spirit in which it was intended, in other words, in a productive manner. Every deck can be improved. Every. Single. One. And critique is different than criticism. If an artist asks for feedback, I have no interest whatsoever in telling them their work is crap. That's not helpful at all, and it would be a rare deck indeed that had NO positive aspects to it.

All of us can learn. All of us can grow. And speaking as an artist myself, I appreciate honest, constructive feedback. Sure it can sting if it comes out of left field. But I take it in, I look at the piece again, and usually I learn something. Whether I do anything about it is my choice. But as long as the reviewer offers constructive feedback, I always appreciate it.

Constructive feedback good. Destructive feedback bad.

But if an artist can't seem to take it, I'm not going to offer it.

Edited to add: Giving good, constructive, detailed critique can take A LOT of time. That's part of why I choose carefully whether to bother. If the artist isn't taking it well, why should I give of my time and energy?
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Yes indeed.

closrapexa said:
I don't remember who it was or when it was said, I think it was someone in the posts I linked to, that Aeclectic has gotten a reputation for being full of nonobjective, uncritical cheer leaders. Does anyone think that's true?
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Yes. Absol *****ing lutely :D

But there are also many of us here who WOULD offer more useful crit if... (see above under Gryff :D)

There are a couple of threads I have been in recently where these things ARE being taken on board.
 

Chronata

I agree with GryffinSong in this respect...if the artist is asking for critique then constructive critique should be welcome.

Of course, as an artist, I know that sometimes even constructive critique can be detrimental to creation...for instance, when you suddenly want to please everyone, and end up no longer pleasing your original intentions.

If people you respect and trust have their own opinions about borders(or lack thereof) colors, numbering, and symbolism...it can get difficult sometimes to separate what YOU want, as an artist from what your audience wants, as a potential buyer.

But I also have been very blessed to receive very good feedback here when I needed it.
My first deck, actually, had a couple of card do-overs thanks to critique that was very spot on and helped me to fix the flaws.

If I feel that a deck I am creating doesn't need any additional feedback from the audience, then I simply don't post it here. I create it and then see what happens.

And I admit, I missed out on some early opportunities to tweak a deck before it went into production...only to tweak it later in other editions, (thanks to some very good post creation critique.)
 

gregory

Yes - and in your threads you have always been more than courteous, and listened !

Whether or not you take a crit on board and change something is less important than whether or not you treat it with respect. (generic you, but Chronata DOES do that.)
 

nicky

I think if you post here asking for opinions you should expect to get opinions <grin>

The members of this community are generally friendly and supportive and I would like to assume when they take the time to offer comments they are civil. This discussion was meant to assume the critiquing was done in a polite way.

Long ago my mother told me not everyone sings like Frank Sinatra - and if everyone held themselves up to that standard the world would have very few singers. If you are doing the art (song, whatever) for yourself then other people's comment should not be threatening. If you are doing it for other people then you need to brace yourself for opinions that may not be the same as your own- or not ask.
 

gregory

Yes - and ALSO - get used to the idea (here we go here we go here we go) that while some of us can see that something is - not right - about a card, we AREN'T all articulate enough in an area that is not our area of expertise to explain exactly what it is.

I was called out big time in a thread a while ago for saying that no, I didn't like whatever it was (it was a deck; I can't even remember which, which is probably just as well...) and no, I couldn't explain why. I was told that if I couldn't explain, I shouldn't have commented, but that because I am (whatever else !) articulate, I MUST be able to explain and I just wasn't trying. Not so. I had seen a deck I really wasn't comfortable with (this wasn't actually in deck creation, but the point holds.) That was all. I pointed out that you can't always articulate why something is beautiful, either. Cut no ice....

*back to trying to explain to someone WHY I find Michelangelo's David ugly. This is now a long term project of mine...*
 

nicky

gregory said:
*back to trying to explain to someone WHY I find Michelangelo's David ugly. This is now a long term project of mine...*
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good luck with that!!! hahaha
 

Debra

nicky said:
I think if you post here asking for opinions you should expect to get opinions <grin>

The members of this community are generally friendly and supportive and I would like to assume when they take the time to offer comments they are civil.
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I agree. Also, you'll get opinions even if you don't ask for them because that's what people do on discussion forums by way of discussing things.

No one can dictate the style of art that people "should" like and by the same token I wish people would not try to dictate the style of critique.

I like constructive critiques better too. I try to make constructive critiques but that's because I'm interested in working through why I feel one way or another about what I see. Not everyone is interested in analysis.

Sometimes creators say "thank you" and may make changes or not and I think that's gracious and admirable. Sometimes they complain here and elsewhere, more or less bitterly. That's their right, too, but in my opinion, ugly, and hard for me to respect.
 
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