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Debra's Avatar
Debra  Debra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta View Post
Really?

And besides the obvious, is sincerity really that strong a benchmark? wow, I'll bet some really really crazy people, even in positions of power, are quite sincere.
Alta. I believe this makes sense if you consider the parts you left out in quoting me. I've put the important bit in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra View Post
Any sincere effort to suggest how a project might be improved symbolically, aesthetically, or technically is constructive, although the recommendations may be displeasing or wrong.
I think it's true, though, that insincere efforts can also have inadvertent constructive effects.

Although I agree with OnePotato that insincerity is unfair to those played for fools.
Top   #41
Pet Jeffery  Pet Jeffery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory View Post
"It gives me the creeps" is fine in my book. "It sucks" is not.... And you are here because you care
I agree. "It gives me the creeps" describes the effect the cards have on an individual. "It sucks" is merely a more than usually objectionable way of saying "I don't like it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory View Post
Geez yes. Tony Blair was....
I don't think that it ever occurred to me that Tony Blair might be sincere... but I think that Hitler probably was -- so sincerity, in itself, isn't necessarily a good thing.
Top   #42
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It's been a very long time since art school, but there are accepted standards for giving a constructive art critique. Of course details will differ between individuals, but as a partial example from a fiber art critique I recently participated in ...

Quote:
- Respect each other's efforts and work.
- Comment in ways that inform the artist about how the work might be improved or what it is within the piece that works very well...
- Be honest. If you feel some part of the design needs more attention, say so.
- Be tactful and kind ...
This is only a very small part of the guidelines we were given on that particular day.
Top   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Constructive according to who?
Whomever is posting - be they artist or 'audience'. If someone is on a discussion forum they are there to discuss. and Yes they don't have to do anything.

But gosh why not - In MY opinion I wish these dialogues were constructive in some way.

GryffinSong posted some good examples of ways to do that.
Top   #44
gregory's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky View Post
Whomever is posting - be they artist or 'audience'. If someone is on a discussion forum they are there to discuss. and Yes they don't have to do anything.

But gosh why not - In MY opinion I wish these dialogues were constructive in some way.

GryffinSong posted some good examples of ways to do that.
Yes, she did. Thanks Gryff.
Top   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky View Post
But gosh why not - In MY opinion I wish these dialogues were constructive in some way.
But maybe they are constructive, in ways you don't perceive or don't appreciate.
Top   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
But maybe they are constructive, in ways you don't perceive or don't appreciate.
perhaps. But I doubt it.

editing to add: I hope that did not sound obnoxious. I had been thinking back on the posts that instigated this thread. And they were pretty much fluff.
Top   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Constructive according to who?
To everyone really!!!
There are so many members that follow these threads and eventually turn creators.. So all these comments/critiques really help..

Also I noticed some people don't like to be asked questions...and people would jump on you cause you asked it.... It is really sad I think..( I recently experienced it )

I am not telling people what they should say or not, everyone is free to do what they want...all I am saying is that there should be a free dialogue... I mean we are supposed to learn from each other and help each other...am I wrong??
Top   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtaroot View Post
I am not telling people what they should say or not, everyone is free to do what they want...all I am saying is that there should be a free dialogue... I mean we are supposed to learn from each other and help each other...am I wrong??
I find that words/phrases like "should" and "supposed to" don't always work out well when applied to other people. Yes, people should do this, that, and the other thing... but they often don't. In fact, what people should do can be a matter of disagreement.

Mark says I should do A, Rick says I should do B; I don't want to either; what should I do? I think Mark shouldn't do C, I've asked him not to, but he does it anyway... and I really hate how Mark acts towards Rick. It's unfair to poor Rick, who surely is suffering under Mark's treatment.

Do you see all the assumptions here? I'm assuming that I need to pay attention to what Mark and Rick say I should do; I'm assuming that I "should" do something other than what I'm already doing; I'm assuming that my telling Mark not to do something is reason enough for him to stop doing it, and that I know better than Mark what Mark should do; I'm assuming that poor Rick is suffering under Mark's treatment, when I don't really know that that's the case. I might suffer under similar treatment, but I am not Rick; perhaps Rick reacts differently. I'm assuming that Rick needs me to defend him. Maybe he doesn't want me defending him; maybe he's happy with things as they are or has other reasons for putting up with Mark that I'm not aware of.

In this scenario, I'm in everybody else's heads to such an extent that I'm not in my own head. I'm assuming that my "should" is everyone else's "should."

You may want a dialogue to go a certain way, but unfortunately there are two people involved in a dialogue, and the other person may not want what you want. So when you say that something should happen a certain way, in the end that doesn't have much meaning. If it's not going that way, and a gentle suggestion to make it go that way doesn't work, then you pretty much have to accept that that particular dialogue with that particular person is not going to go the way you want it to, and you have the choice of either continuing with the dialogue or leaving it. (You can substitute "relationship" for "dialogue" and it's just as true.)

The only person you really have any control over is yourself. That's why I said in my first post in this thread that I'm much happier now, because I focus on my words and my actions, rather than being the world's policeman and telling other people what they should be doing. If my goal were to influence people to act as I want them to, then I would have a better chance of doing that by setting a positive example with my own words and actions than by trying to impose my will on them.
Top   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
The only person you really have any control over is yourself. That's why I said in my first post in this thread that I'm much happier now, because I focus on my words and my actions, rather than being the world's policeman and telling other people what they should be doing. If my goal were to influence people to act as I want them to, then I would have a better chance of doing that by setting a positive example with my own words and actions than by trying to impose my will on them.
Perhaps I am not expressing myself here - I have no desire to tell people how to act but I have an opinion about the threads and like discussing them- does that better explain what the intent of this thread is?
Top   #50




 

 


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