Who's for giving "the Gypsies" their due?

As per Fulgour's original question... Who's for giving the Gypsies their dues... I certainly am.
Some tend to overlook or forget that many Gypsieswere sacrificed in the war just as the Jews were and for that matter Catholics, etc.
A few years ago a band of Gypsies landed in Canada and they were miserably treated here. I wanted to do something at the time and did not. Ever since I have regretted my lack of involvement. I could have made a scene at least. They are a displaced people and should have been treated as any other people who come to this Country.
My Auntie who was born in 1887 told me the Gypsies used to come onto their land, a very large farm in the North of England, and my Grandfather would welcome them and had for many years. They would stay a while and then move on but they were always treated with respect and I presume were respectful as well. I guess they used to read for my Grandmother although I never got to hear what they had told her.
Did anyone ever ask them were the Tarot cards were from ? That would be interesting.

My mum finds it very hard to talk about her past... I have to catch her in the right mood.... but I will gently try to find out more, I am visiting her next week for a little holiday, (can't wait to get out of the London!) so the Tarot will be discussed at some point!

Thank you for the interest you have shown.

Sx

I am of Romani descent as far as I can tell (when my ancestors came over, they would likely have been denied access to the U.S. if they'd been honest). During my research into the history of the people, I've found nothing that says they "invented" tarot, but that they were a resourceful people who took what they wanted from local customs and incorporated them into their own as they chose.

Other forms of divination they use are decidedly eastern in origin (throwing seeds into a circle).

Kimberly

It seems to me that it was unlikely that the Gypsies invented Tarot Cards, since the traveling life is unsuited to the kind of ongoing creativity and leisure-time that would require. It's a hard life, and more often than not, sustenance-level is about the best you can do. When you add in the suspicion and prejudice of the settled people around you, and all that means on a practical level, I just don't see inventing Tarot in their copious spare time as likely.

I base this on my experience of traveling with circuses and carnivals for 2 years as part of a knife-throwing act. Even with modern conveniences like Coleman stoves and access to laundromats it's a hard, busy life without much time for anything beyond work-eat-sleep.

I do absolutely believe that the Gypsies carried and spread the Tarot deck all over Europe. A branch of Gypsies did go down into the near-east and Egypt, but there were not tarot cards there, which points to it being an European invention.

I heard the GYPsies came from eGYPt. That's how they got their name. Just my 5c worth.

Romani is based in Sanskrit, so that would mean India. Also, their goddess Bibijaka is a version of the Indian goddess Durga.

The Sinti I knew were not openly spiritual, but in some of the famlies, the old knowledge still lived. But using cards to do divinations etc is as common as reading from tea leaves etc. As far as I see it, the "gipsies" only picked up one more way to access the "supernatural" and brought it to perfection.

"Rom" means human, btw. I've not yet knowingly met one though.

Rosanne said:

On the other hand I believe in a Phoenician association with the 22 Trumps- so I guess anything is possible- I would just like to see where you are coming from Fulgour, and why you see this strong connection.Hehe I have oft wondered if the article in hand of the Valet de coupes was a tambourine!

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The Indus Valley and the Tigris Euphrates peoples developed
along almost identical lines at nearly the exact same time...

This makes our Alphabet ~ like Hebrew from the Phoenician,
greatly indebted to such Cradles of Civilisation in many ways.

http://home.snu.edu/~dwilliam/s97/india/vishnu.gif
Vishnu holding the Four Symbols of the Elements

I'm beginning to feel much like how when people say that
Shakespeare didn't write his plays when it comes to Gypsy
cultural influences, and for our purposes that means Tarot.

Since the one thing "Historians" agree on about the Tarot is
that nobody knows from whence it came... ain't it a hoot!

Scotch-Irish plus

Arania said:

"Rom" means human, btw. I've not yet knowingly met one though.

Click to expand...

One of my wife's father's grandparents on
his mother's side was full-blooded. ~ ~

Fulgour said:

Since the one thing "Historians" agree on about the Tarot is
that nobody knows from whence it came... ain't it a hoot!

Click to expand...

As you know perfectly well, "historians" all agree that the Tarot came from 15th century Italy. A hoot indeed.

-- Lee

Prove it.

Lee said:

..."historians" all agree that the Tarot came from 15th century Italy.

Click to expand...

15th Century Italy ~ that would be somewhere between
Sicily and the Alps, on the Apennine Peninsula, basking
à la neighbourhood, à la Mediterranean, à la 1400's...
Please forgive me, I missed the joke here. Was it funny?