Visconti Sforza Force/Strength Yet Again!

Abrac

Rosanne (or anyone), what do you make of the picture in Ross's article, the one by Christine de Pizan? Are Hercules and the lion fighting the dragon? If so, it would appear that Hercules has used his strength to make the lion obedient to him. This sort of depiction could form the basis for the Marseille style Strength images. But I've never heard of Hercules and the lion working together, have you?
 

Rosanne

HI Abrac!

I do not understand that depiction shown by Ross. Hercules strangled the Lion- then went to kill the 9 headed dragony thingy.
It is thought he was wearing the Lion's pelt when he killed the dragon.
In the Christine de Pizan image Hercules appears to be holding the lion back by a collar. The dragon appears dead already.
I did not think that Christine de Pizan wrote of Hercules anyway.
I have some vague memory of Joan of Arc dreaming of a dragon and I know
That Saint George slew one.
No I must admit I never have heard of Hercules and the Lion in partnership.
~Rosanne
 

Rosanne

I should have added that Ross thinks there is a problem with this depiction anyway and I have to agree that for the card Sforza- I like the astrological explanation of 26 Libra -Victor of War. It does not explain the Strength card of the Cary Yale though. (This one is what the most decks have as some version or another) A female, a subservient Lion have it's mouth been opened or shut. I might add that most everyday Italians had not seen a Lion by the time of the Renaissance and did this poodle like curls of it's coat. Of course there were paintings of Lions- but generally the Lions of the Arenas were long gone. Most of the Statuary had lions with these delightful curls. Very Gothic; or Van-Gogh :D
 

Yygdrasilian

Prometheus ('Forethought')

Perhaps you are familiar with the tale of the Serpent who beguiles us of the paradisiacal fruit ripened upon Immortality’s Tree? 



Our constellation Draco, coiled round Earth’s celestial pole, is known to be that dragon Ladon, slithering his way thru the mythos of antiquity’s mystery traditions - a Serpent of the world Tree as common to the collective unconscious as our shared journey upon this Sphere spinning upon an axis thru Time. 



Among the ancient Greeks there was a word: melon - which could mean either apple or sheep, depending on context. In the latter, assumes the form of Aries’ GOLDEN FLEECE sought by Jason in his voyage upon the constellation Argos, a SHIP sailing cross the horizon of the southern sea; in the former, as Hera’s golden fruit stolen in fulfillment of her step-son’s 11th impossible task. Each contain ‘immortal’ formulae for transmuting the Lead of unrefined being into purest, shining Gold - a secret left us by the ancient Magi & guarded by their DRAGON in the sky:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3eKuFFHGH30/TKhVq8PL5iI/AAAAAAAAAS8/hA9nYDFWCzg/s1600/VITRIOL.jpg

In this respect, Herakles' Strength may serve to illustrate a notable switch seen in the Marseilles pattern:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3eKuFFHGH30/TG3tJFM6i9I/AAAAAAAAAM8/QTDQFILKMFQ/s1600/22clubbin'.jpg

Apple, anyone?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3eKuFFHGH30/TG3tIoNhY3I/AAAAAAAAAM0/IdLwlmPrTmU/s1600/22appleEYESi.jpg
 

Rosanne

Hi There Yygdrasilian!
Now where my friend does alchemy fit in this, especially Strength Cary Yale version? We do not even know the position or the name of the Queen like person and Lion card. She does not look like Vitriol. Well except as the Lady of the upper atmosphere of Venus. This is Phantasms.
I have tried to play your ideas out time and time again, and you lose me every time. She is Eve? Where did she get those threads?That is even more bizarre. She is Hera? Now she is doing Jason's job. Now if it was a green Lion I might wonder if you are right. Perhaps her dress is blue acid?
Sometime in the 15th Century an Artist was asked to make some cards for a game- he/she but most likely he, grabbed his Alchemy treatises and proceeded to imbue his Arabic notions within. Why? To hide them from Whom? Strength of the Sun? I am sure there had to be clearer images hidden in plain view- than these ones.
Maybe I am just not up there with your intelligence. As far as apples go, I am more likely to believe Snow White's experience with her apple than yours.
Said with all due respect of course.
~Rosanne
 

Huck

Well, the basic story is Greek mythology, but not only

Heracles - Mikro-Anthropos - Hero of the moment
Atlas (carries the world) - Makro-Anthropos - biblical Adam (is big as the world)
Hesperiden - multiplied Eve
Garden of Hesperiden (at the Western border of the world) = garden Eden
apple tree = tree in paradise
Golden Apples = apple of paradise
Ladon = viper in paradise

***************

Also in the game:

Perseus, grand-grand-father of Heracles
- killed Medusa, and then visited Atlas.

After the slaughter of Medusa, Perseus, bearing with him the head of the Gorgon, flew far and wide, over land and sea. As night came on, he reached the western limit of the earth, where the sun goes down. Here he would gladly have rested till morning. It was the realm of King Atlas, whose bulk surpassed that of all other men. He was rich in flocks and herds and had no neighbor or rival to dispute his state. But his chief pride was in his gardens, whose fruit was of gold, hanging from golden branches, half hid with golden leaves. Perseus said to him, "I come as a guest. If you honor illustrious descent, I claim Jupiter for my father; if mighty deeds, I plead the conquest of the Gorgon. I seek rest and food." But Atlas remembered that an ancient prophecy had warned him that a son of Jove should one day rob him of his golden apples. So he answered, "Begone! Or neither your false claims of glory nor of parentage shall protect you;" and he attempted to thrust him out. Perseus, finding the giant too strong for him, said, "Since you value my friendship so little, deign to accept a present;" and turning his face away, he held up the Gorgon's head. Atlas, with all his bulk, was changed into stone. His beard and hair became forests, his arms and shoulders cliffs, his head a summit, and his bones rocks. Each part increased in bulk till he became a mountain, and (such was the pleasure of the gods) heaven with all its stars rests upon his shoulders.

And all in vain was Atlas turned to a mountain, for the oracle did not mean Perseus, but the hero Hercules, who should come long afterwards to get the golden apples for his cousin Eurystheus.

After this Perseus went and saved Andromeda from a sea dragon. This happened in "Ethiopia", but it is discussed, which Ethiopia was meant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia_(Mythology)
"... it is occasionally posited that Ethiopia, referred to in the myth of Andromeda, was actually a kingdom based at Joppa in Phoenicia. This interpretation is supported by Pliny the Elder's 1st Century observation of a tradition, in Joppa, that associated a rock off the coast of Israel with the mythical rock of Andromeda."
but ...
'However, contrary to this notion, is legend that Perseus's "return flight" took him "above the sands of Libya" -- which could not have occurred if, in fact, Joppa was the location of mythological Ethiopia.'

Well, the real Ethiopians of nowadays still use an alphabet with strong similarities to the Phoenician and Jewish alphabet.
The "sea dragon" in the story seems to indicate, that the addressed people had a common use with their ships ... which would have been true for the Phoenicians, but possibly also the Ethiopian side had functioning trade routes
to eastern parts of the world.

The use of the Adam-Eve-story with garden of paradise likely hadn't been limited on the small Jewish population, likely this was a farspread story, possibly known also to Phoenician and also in Ethiopia.

In the construction of Greek mythology it is generally assumed to have been common to address (and use) foreign mythology, often transforming the original stuff to a special Greek adaption.
Ranke-Graves assumed an earlier "Syrian Heracles" as a prototype of the development of Greek Heracles.

Nonetheless ... Cepheus and Cassiopeia, the parents of the bride, also were turned to stone with the same Medusa-trick and all were placed on the heaven.

The star picture catalog developed around 200 BC, although naturally (likely) composed with material of older compositions. Generally it followed the big Greek expansion with Alexander the Great, which naturally included a big communicative impact of Eastern astrology and other foreign ideas in the general Greek mind .. a general step towards an international view on the world, for instance it followed a translation of older parts of the bible.

Alexander with his idea to be a god himself had a strong favor for the Herakles figure (who also became a god). Generally the whole star picture catalog has a focus on Heracles.

Alexander had also a favor for Bacchus. Its assumed, that the triumphal journey of Bacchus from India (with tigers dragging the chariot) was a pun on Alexanders attempt to conquer India.
Some even assume, that Alexander died so very early of too big consume of alcohol.

Bacchus+croppedSousseTunisia.jpg
 

Bernice

hmm...... so how does all this Greek (and Arabic) relate to the Visconti Sforza card, Strength?

Very brief replies please, as this discussion seems to be wandering far from the Topic.


Bee :)
 

Rosanne

Very briefly- I have absolutely no idea.
 

Huck

Bernice said:
hmm...... so how does all this Greek (and Arabic) relate to the Visconti Sforza card, Strength?

Very brief replies please, as this discussion seems to be wandering far from the Topic.


Bee :)

... .-) ... very briefly

d0204611.jpg


... it looks like Heracles
 

Bernice

:) ......and not an arab in sight.

I do think it odd that he's wielding a club. I would have thought that a sword would be used in defence. So the myth suggestion probably lies with the club.


Bee :)