"House of God" = Meteorites?

Rosanne

Very interesting thread- and if you will bear with me I have a different take on the Tower as in say the Conver.
In the province of Hejaz in the western part of Arabia, not far from the Red Sea, is the town of Makka. In the centre of this town there is a small square building made of stones, about 60 feet long, 60 feet wide and 60 feet high. Since time immemorial this town and this stone built house has been known to world travellers. This is Baitullah, the House of Allah. At 7 feet above the ground has a doorway and two windows. The corners of Tower faced the four directions. In those days people prayed towards Jerusalem.
When the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the first European colony that created huge wealth for the Christians- The Church of the Holy Sepulcre was a Gothic church with a huge Tower- (it looked like the Baitullah) that was a scriptorium. The Crusaders had divided their New Territory into four sections. In May 1291 AD the Mamluks took the last stronghold of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (Acre) and savagely so it seems. The Gothic towers of the Crusaders were razed and the taxes levied in the area ceased. So did the huge wealth from commerce for Europe. I think those balls are coins. It would also be understandable that it would sometimes be called the house of the Devil. ~Rosanne
 

DoctorArcanus

This thread is excellent, and the subject is one of the misteries of Tarot: what is the House of God?

Here is some more stuff to think about:


Bible - Genesis:
28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD
God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou
liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; 28:14 And thy seed
shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the
west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee
and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places
whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I
will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to
thee of.
28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD
is in this place; and I knew it not.
28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is
none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that
he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil
upon the top of it.
28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of
that city was called Luz at the first.



Bible - The Second Book of the Chronicles:
36:19 And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of
Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed
all the goodly vessels thereof.

For the following text, also see the attached image.
Bible - Book of Revelation
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed
out of his prison, 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which
are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them
together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the
camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down
from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I looked for the text by Pliny quoted in the wiki text in Robert's first post (Pliny, Nat. Hist. xvii. 9). I could find it only in latin, and it does not seem to be relevant.
I found this passage (in latin and English) which could be what was meant by the wiki author (latin text here):

Plinius, Natural History Book II
Chap. LVIII.

Of Stones falling downe from the skie.

AMONG the Greekes there is much talke of Anaxagoras Clazomenius, who by his learning and skill that he had in Astronomie, foretold in the second yeere of the 78 Olympias, what time a stone should fall from out of the Sunne: and the same happened accordingly in the day time, in a part of Thracia neere the river Aegos; which stone is shewed at this day as bigge as a waine load, carrying a burnt and adust colour: at what time as a comet or blazing starre also burned in those nights. Which if any man beleeve that it was fore-signified, must needs also confesse, that this divinitie or fore-telling of Anaxagoras was more miraculous and wonderfull than the thing it selfe: and then farewell the knowledge of Natures workes, and welcome confusion of all, in case we should beleeve that either the Sunne were a stone, or that ever any stone were in it. But, that stones fall often times downe, no man will make any doubt. In the publicke place of Exercise in Abydos, there is one at this day upon the same cause preserved and kept for to be seene, and held in great reverence: It is but of a meane and small quantitie, yet it is that which the selfesame Anaxagoras (by report) fore-signified that it should fall in the mids of the earth. There is one also at Cassandria, which was in old time usually called Potidæa, a colonie from thence deducted. I my selfe have seene another in the territorie of the Vocantians, which was brought thither but a little before.​

My impression is that the TdM tower card really is about meteorites. Pliny has a scientific, modern approach. When speaking of meteorites, he finds it strange that somebody could foretell their coming, but he is not surprised by meteorites as a natural phenomenon. But Pliny's point of view was an exception: the ancient world usually did not consider meteorites a natural phenomenon, and thought they were a sign of God (or the gods). Traces of such belief can be found in ancient texts such as the Bible, but also in authors as recent as Shakespeare, as written by Baba-Prague.
In my opinion, the cards we are considering are about "fire coming down from God out of heaven": a concept that could well have been indistinguishable from "meteorites" in ancient times.

Marco
 

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Abrac

It seems to me they could very easily be meteorites, or meteorites mixed with hail.

-fof
 

le pendu

Rosanne said:
Very interesting thread- and if you will bear with me I have a different take on the Tower as in say the Conver.
In the province of Hejaz in the western part of Arabia, not far from the Red Sea, is the town of Makka. In the centre of this town there is a small square building made of stones, about 60 feet long, 60 feet wide and 60 feet high. Since time immemorial this town and this stone built house has been known to world travellers. This is Baitullah, the House of Allah. At 7 feet above the ground has a doorway and two windows. The corners of Tower faced the four directions. In those days people prayed towards Jerusalem.
When the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the first European colony that created huge wealth for the Christians- The Church of the Holy Sepulcre was a Gothic church with a huge Tower- (it looked like the Baitullah) that was a scriptorium. The Crusaders had divided their New Territory into four sections. In May 1291 AD the Mamluks took the last stronghold of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (Acre) and savagely so it seems. The Gothic towers of the Crusaders were razed and the taxes levied in the area ceased. So did the huge wealth from commerce for Europe. I think those balls are coins. It would also be understandable that it would sometimes be called the house of the Devil. ~Rosanne

Hi Rosanne,

I'm having a bit of difficulty separating the two paragraphs.. but addressing the first... we're talking about the Kabba, the House of God, in Mecca (as Baba-Prague suggested). The interesting thing here is that one of the main features of it is the Al-Hajarul-Aswad, the Black Stone. It is widely believed, but not proven because tests can not be made on it, that it Black Stone is a meteorite. Frankly, in my opinion, THE feature of the Kabba is the Black Stone, and the Black Stone is probably just another version of a Bethel. I would bet that the early religious significance of the site is the stone itself, and can be traced beyond Mohammed to earlier Bethel worship. I suggest that the name of the site, The House of God, is again referring (indirectly) to the meteorite rather than the square structure.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajar_el_Aswad
The Stone was an object of veneration in pre-Islamic days. Early chroniclers say that the Kaaba was rebuilt during Muhammad's youth, and that there was some contention among the Quraysh, Mecca's ruling clan, as to who should have the honor of raising the Black Stone to its place in the new structure. Muhammad is said to have suggested that the Stone be placed on a cloak and that the various clan heads jointly lift the cloak and put the Stone into place. Secular historians see this tale as a later glorification of Muhammad, but agree that it accurately represents the pre-Islamic status of the Black Stone...

...Just as there are various viewpoints regarding the religious significance of the Stone, there are also various opinions as to the history and nature of the Stone.
Muslims say that the Stone was found by Abraham (Ibrahim) and his son Ishmael (Ismail) when they were searching for stones with which to build the Kaaba. They recognized its worth and made it one of the building's cornerstones.
Secular historians point to the history of stone worship, and especially meteorite worship, in pre-Islamic Arabia, and say that it is likely that the Stone is a meteorite. There is no way to test this hypothesis without removing and examining the Stone, which would not be permitted by its guardians.

From http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Kaaba
and http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Black+Stone
One of the cornerstones of the Kaaba is the Hajar el Aswad (the sacred "Black Stone"), which is generally thought to be a meteorite remnant.
 

baba-prague

Drat - le Pendu, you stole my next post :)
I was going to say that while the building is not really a tower (it's much less tall and narrow than the tower on the tarot card) it IS the home of a meteorite - assuming that this is the building referred to.

This is not to discount what Roseanne is suggesting, but it is interesting that so many of these roads seem to lead back to the idea of a comet and meteorite shower.

But if this is what is being shown, then presumably we have a depiction of something either apocalyptic, as DA suggests, or at the very least indicative of the "fall of a kingdom". If that's the case, any thoughts about why this is present at this particular point of the Trumps? I can fully see why it would come before Judgement, but why the Star, Moon and Sun?

In spite of just reading part of Revelations yet again, and being in general fairly convinced that the Trumps are connected with apocalyptic scenes, the sequence still only partially makes sense. After the fire rains down from the heavens, what next? Is the Star a meteor fallen to earth (er, that doesn't feel quite right, does it?)

Edited to add. Oh, "The Morning Star" - Christ comes after the destruction by fire? Sorry, totally unformed thoughts, I should go and read more.
 

Elven

I believe the Bay Tree legend is older than biblical times baba - I will look for some references I have in regard to this, and get back to the thread - it may have had to do with my Sabian Studies(?)

The other thing is I own a piece of meteorite and have mentioned in many threads that I truely cannot keep this piece on me now these days and will not carry it on me - but until reading this thread not much has made sense - but the last time I carried it (intuitivelt placing it in my pocket prior to what would happen, and left it there for two weeks) I had a Tower month - personally catastropic - wipeout! Accompanied by very bad dreams and visions I could not grasp - in the outside world, the Tsunami hit - I didnt know about it for two weeks after it had happened. This was the last straw when I found it in my jeans pocket - this had happened everytime I had carried this stone on me - I had always thought the meaning was contact from beings beyond the planet ;) but this makes this analogy a little clearer.

Sorry - Im not meaning to distrupt the thread - but just to add witness to some of the lore pertaining to 'meteorite' - it has happened too many times for me to think this is a mere coincidence - I am sceptical until its shoved in my face! I had no idea when i purchased it. I would love to read more about these magnetic pieces - great thread.
I cant wait to get the Vieville deck - it will sing to me :)

Blessings
Elven
 

baba-prague

Elven said:
I believe the Bay Tree legend is older than biblical times baba - I will look for some references I have in regard to this, and get back to the thread - it may have had to do with my Sabian Studies(?)

Thank-you, that would be great. The tree does look a little like a bay doesn't it? (I know that is one huge assumption, but all the same).

I think your own beliefs about meteors are very interesting - speaking for myself. I think sometimes it may be good to have some personal experience and beliefs mixed in with hard fact in these threads, but of course, that's only my opinion. Must say your stories would stop me from ever carrying a meteorite fragment!

_________
Slightly off-thread - There is a whole thing here about moldavite by the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavite
Bohemia is right in the middle of a crater formed by a meteor impact, and interestingly some people ascribe Prague's magic character to that. If nothing else, it shows yet again how deeply this fear/awe of meteors and comets goes.
 

Rosanne

No I was not talking about the Kaaba- though that is what is in Mecca. These houses of Gods where in the area long before the Black Stone of Mecca. By the way that Black Stone used to have animal hides draped all over it- it was considered a pagan relic before it became the Muslim Black Stone of Mecca.Yes and it is supposed to be a metorite. These stone towers had a black stone in the corner on the outside facing the east I believe. They were something to do with a Dragon in the sky. Maybe in August when the metorite showers began there was some sort of ceremony each year. I cannot find my history notes on this. I have this belief anyway that tarot is some sort of collective memory of Astronomical events- but I do not talk about it here very often- I think the Phoencians used a sort of Almanac on the 22 Letters and they spoke of Astronmy. -Showers of rock sized coloured balls? Something hitting Venus to make it spin the other way? Venus is Earths evil twin lol. I don't know- but I think it is Astronomical events overlaid with another story as well maybe from Languedoc? Rome was sure a planet sized disaster for many people in the ancient times and the middle ages. ~Rosanne
 

le pendu

Hi Rosanne,

Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about the Kaaba, as that is what the paragraph you quoted seems to imply, as seen in this link:
http://www.al-islam.org/kaaba14/1.htm

I do hope you can find your notes, or something to help me understand this better.. as I am very interested in any pre-existing "house of god" references, (especially in connection to meteorites of course!). I have yet to find any reference to animal skins draped on the black stone.

I need to point out that I am not saying that The Tower IS showing meteorites, I am only trying to explore the possibility, especially with the connection to the name on the card in the TdM, and wonder what insights such exploration may lead to.

I appreciate very much that you share your thoughts, and enjoy learning from your insights.

best,
robert