Lenormand: What Difficulties Do YOU experience?

Some do mix systems. I do not.

The Belgium system is a "mix" of the German and French, but it does seem to have a few differences like the "Snake" is not seen as the "other woman" and "Moon" is used for "jobs". With "Snake" though am not sure if that is on a broad level or just with some.

In regards to the "Brazilian" system most cards stem off of the German system, but some cards have meanings of their own and this system more than the others connects to the Occult/Mediumship etc. Some cards will say "Mediumship" or "whatever".

If looking at different meanings with the Brazilian system, for example, cards like "Clover" means "Obstacles" and "Blocks" not "Luck" or "Opportunities".

The problem, I feel, is some are learning different systems and do not know that they are and this is what causes the confusion when they get all job cards at the same time so do not know what to do when that happens: Fox (French)/Moon (Belgium)/Anchor(German).

One person (maybe two) have mentioned they use "Bear" as a job card, but I find that although it can be about "finances" in the French system, it is not really a card about "work" or "jobs" in general. It "describes" what kind of job it is really, but that is all.

I did see something online in which one card was read as "Matriarchal" (German) which I thought was the reader using the French system because another card (Whip) came up in the same spread as "sex" (French/Belgium) although at the time I did not know that "Whip" was used as "sex" by the Belgium system until someone from Belgium wrote out that system. I think someone mentioned she used the Belgium system as well, but do not hold me to that as I am remembering back to the middle of last year. A bit later on in another video by the same reader she used "Bear" and "Fox" as "work" in a 3 card spread but if she followed the "Belgium system" why did she not use "Moon".

No system has the "Bear" as "work" or "job" that I know of at all.

Do you see why mixing systems and creating a card meaning for a card that is not really "work" or "job" may be something of a concern?

I do believe that the Lenormand cards have evolved in meaning over time to include job cards or finances etc, but one such card is not "Bear". I have yet to see the system that actually uses it.


DND

onesun said:

There's so much said on DON'T MIX systems.. I just wonder if others do it anyway and somehow 'get away with it' and have successful reads.

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I think these cards just represent "sex".

Kinky sex for me would have to be something like "Lily + Whip" (German), issues with sex Snake + Whip (French), Not sexually active something like Whip + Mountain (French) or Lily and Mountain (German).

The Lenormand were meant to be read like a story, so really speaking more than one card is how I see it.

onesun said:

Is it not possible to describe the kind of sex that is had by using one card or the other? I mean, Lillies as more tender heart felt sensitive lovemaking and Whip as baudy, kinky, bdsm and maybe Snake would be spiteful sex.. I guess..

OS

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onesun said:

And to that end, please DND enlighten me, when you read and since you know both German and French systems so well, among others I might imagine, do you decide upfront which system you will use? please tell me your process, how you derive at giving which cards what meaning and thereby the effects of your overall read that you offer the sitter?

Regards,
OS

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I only use the German System (Near and Far) (Traditional) for the 4 x 9 GT.

The 8 x 4 plus 4 GT and anything else I use the French meanings.

I am comfortable with both systems, but also know the differences which makes a heck of a difference. However, I do not know absolutely everything as the "limitations" when I was first learning was "language" and nothing in "English" for a number of years. I was lucky to have two great teachers. When I transitioned to a more "open way of reading" I had a hard time understanding Steinbach's book, so for me it was a lot of "trial and error" and working things out for myself. She fine tuned the way really, so in a way I am grateful for that.

DND

onesun said:

Ah, now see, here we have it. I'm right there with Andy, I have his book and it seems really great in parts and very good in others. And I'm reading right along and thinking THIS must be the system that seems to most resonate and but then I hit the Moon as work card. Doesn't do a dang thing for me. Cycles of work each day etc to me kind of stretches the angle. Moon for as long as civilization began has always been associated with emotions, ebb's n flows of the tides and the subconscious and fear and on and on. But work? I can't get there. So what is one to do? only discard it and grab what fits. And now I'm mixing systems. Seriously, what is one to do..

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Okay, to address my little tirade above I just went back and started to further read Anthony Louis' book. Ironically the next section that came up was 'Work Cards' and this is what he mentioned and I quote:

"Most Lenormand teachers advise learning a core set of meanings and sticking to them until your own experience teaches you otherwise. My impression is that the cards most commonly used to signify ‘work’ in a reading are FOX, MOON, and ANCHOR. They all make sense in their own way. My own preference (which may change as I gain more experience) is to use ANCHOR because I view work as providing stability and structure to one’s life. If I were reading for a professional person with a public career, I would view MOON as the “signifier because MOON traditionally refers to high rank and prominence in one’s field. For a day laborer without a steady job, the FOX might make more sense as a card representing the tasks that must be done that day in order to survive.”

Excerpt From: Louis, Anthony. “Lenormand Symbols: Exploring the Origins of the Images on the Cards.” iBooks.

Now this is all beginning to make much more sense to me. Everything in context. Use one for this another for that. I like that even he has described using one card (Anchor) for work until such time he sees a need to change it. Because as he says, all these cards above make sense, and so to use one you just have to go with what maybe makes more sense above the others, again remaining flexible to change it if need be.

DownUnderNZer said:

I only use the German System (Near and Far) (Traditional) for the 4 x 9 GT.

The 8 x 4 plus 4 GT and anything else I use the French meanings.

I am comfortable with both systems, but also know the differences which makes a heck of a difference. However, I do not know absolutely everything as the "limitations" when I was first learning was "language" and nothing in "English" for a number of years. I was lucky to have two great teachers. When I transitioned to a more "open way of reading" I had a hard time understanding Steinbach's book, so for me it was a lot of "trial and error" and working things out for myself. She fine tuned the way really, so in a way I am grateful for that.

DND

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Thanks for your candor. Would you help me understand what is considered just how near is near and far is far? I mean besides cards that actually 'touch' that are obviously near. Do we actually count and give weight to cards as the are farther and farther away or is it just something you feel or ??

Also, I would love it if you go into more detail in regards to an 'open way or method' of reading as opposed to just what, I imagine a more strict defined traditional method perhaps?

DownUnderNZer said:

I think these cards just represent "sex".

Kinky sex for me would have to be something like "Lily + Whip" (German), issues with sex Snake + Whip (French), Not sexually active something like Whip + Mountain (French) or Lily and Mountain (German).

The Lenormand were meant to be read like a story, so really speaking more than one card is how I see it.

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Oh yes, of course, I had not taken into account 'the marriage of meanings' aspect which is of course what is integral to Lenormand.

DownUnderNZer said:

No system has the "Bear" as "work" or "job" that I know of at all.

Do you see why mixing systems and creating a card meaning for a card that is not really "work" or "job" may be something of a concern?

DND

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As I indicated in the below comment about me reading up in Anthony Louis book, he does go on to say the same about Bear in relation to work. I believe he mentioned it having more to do with finances or strength thereof/or lack depending on corresponding cards, but mostly he sees it as a job position, as in managerial. So no, not a Work Card per se. But it's easy enough to see how one could then begin to associate Bear with work.. I suppose.. But I won't now that I know the difference.

In any case, yes, absolutely I can and do see why mixing systems can create a massive problem above and beyond just 'concern'. This is exactly why I need clarification. I'm reading and delving everywhere I can, online anyway, to learn this remarkable oracle. And so to that end I do so thank you for your input.

For me "BEAR" can be used on its own for just "Finances" and if looking at "career possibilities" the cards that surround it could indicate what area although some cards might point towards "Chef" or "Diet Consultant" rather than a "Financial Consultant". So, you do need to work out what means what.

"Moon" and "Bear", for me, describe "career possibilities" but are not "work cards" themselves.

If "Moon" even "Stars" came up next to "Fox" or "Anchor" and it was a "work" or "career" question I would see "recognition" and that the person will be "well known" even "famous".

NOTE: I am aware that for "Belgium" it is a different story for Moon as it is a part of their system.

onesun said:

As I indicated in the below comment about me reading up in Anthony Louis book, he does go on to say the same about Bear in relation to work. I believe he mentioned it having more to do with finances or strength thereof/or lack depending on corresponding cards, but mostly he sees it as a job position, as in managerial. So no, not a Work Card per se. But it's easy enough to see how one could then begin to associate Bear with work.. I suppose.. But I won't now that I know the difference.

In any case, yes, absolutely I can and do see why mixing systems can create a massive problem above and beyond just 'concern'. This is exactly why I need clarification. I'm reading and delving everywhere I can, online anyway, to learn this remarkable oracle. And so to that end I do so thank you for your input.

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"Near and Far" is part of the German system, I believe, the closer the cards the stronger the influence whereas when further away not such a strong impact or immediate.

DND

onesun said:

Thanks for your candor. Would you help me understand what is considered just how near is near and far is far? I mean besides cards that actually 'touch' that are obviously near. Do we actually count and give weight to cards as the are farther and farther away or is it just something you feel or ??

Also, I would love it if you go into more detail in regards to an 'open way or method' of reading as opposed to just what, I imagine a more strict defined traditional method perhaps?

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Break time from documentaries.....

I can see "Bear" as a "big boss" or even a "manager", but not on it's own. It would have to on the most part come up with whatever cards to indicate something like that and as a part of a question asked perhaps. Like: "Tell me about my boss?".

If I was "practicing" I might stretch it out by just using one card to see what I could come up with in the way of possibilities.

Bear: He is strong willed, likes control, manages everything his way. You know he is the boss without a doubt as he likes to be fully in charge and head on etc etc etc".

But for the position of "Manager" it would have to have something next to it like "Sun" maybe off the top of my head.

Depends.


DND

onesun said:

As I indicated in the below comment about me reading up in Anthony Louis book, he does go on to say the same about Bear in relation to work. I believe he mentioned it having more to do with finances or strength thereof/or lack depending on corresponding cards, but mostly he sees it as a job position, as in managerial. So no, not a Work Card per se. But it's easy enough to see how one could then begin to associate Bear with work.. I suppose.. But I won't now that I know the difference.

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