Farzon
Some days ago I stumbled about "permutations to the CC spread" given by Mary Greer.
I can´t find any information about this, can someone explain it to me?
I can´t find any information about this, can someone explain it to me?
Permutations to the Celtic Cross?
rwcarter
Welcome Farzon!
If I'm remembering correctly, this is discussed in Mary's book Tarot For Yourself. She looks at different arrangements of the cards in the Celtic Cross to get more depth out of the reading. Let me see if I can find a link.
If I'm remembering correctly, this is discussed in Mary's book Tarot For Yourself. She looks at different arrangements of the cards in the Celtic Cross to get more depth out of the reading. Let me see if I can find a link.
Farzon
Hey great! ^^
Thanks for the quick reply!
Although the CC is one of the most usual spreads out there, I like it a lot. I already figured out some ways to give it more depth with elemental dignities and different directions in reading the cards, so every new input is welcome!
Thanks for the quick reply!
Although the CC is one of the most usual spreads out there, I like it a lot. I already figured out some ways to give it more depth with elemental dignities and different directions in reading the cards, so every new input is welcome!
danieljuk
I'm not sure about Greer's Book info but the Tarotpedia entry for the spread has lots of the different position ideas - http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Celtic_Cross_spread and also Joan Bunning's Learn Tarot site has one of the best explanations about the spread - http://www.learntarot.com/ccross.htm Her pairings of the cards was something that changed how I looked at it.
just wanted to share those ideas but people use different positions all the time, so we all find our own way! I saw a nice variation once where you have 3 outcome cards at the top instead of 1! People all have their own way of doing the CC and often this causes a problem in the 'your readings' thread until they post their positions with the cards
here is some different CC versions from the spread index - http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=3704108&postcount=2
just wanted to share those ideas but people use different positions all the time, so we all find our own way! I saw a nice variation once where you have 3 outcome cards at the top instead of 1! People all have their own way of doing the CC and often this causes a problem in the 'your readings' thread until they post their positions with the cards
here is some different CC versions from the spread index - http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=3704108&postcount=2
Barleywine
Excellent topic! Even though it seems to be a rigid positional spread, the CC can have a surprising amount of flexibility. I first learned it from Eden Gray's books and have been tinkering with it since the early 1970s. Even though I've created some personalized spreads for my own use, the CC is still the one I use most. About the only "permutation" I shy away from is what A.E. Waite did to it in the Pictorial Key to the Tarot. I've always read the "points" on the central cross in a clockwise fashion from the bottom, as a timeline. Waite's version looks too much like the "Sign of the Cross" when put in motion, and I don't agree with the overt "Christianization" of tarot that seemed to be one of his goals (although he wasn't alone in that). I've seen other sequences for the "timeline," but none makes me feel the need to change.
Farzon
Now this way starts to make sense to me! The subconscious and the past are influencing the mind and the future then, right? I always wondered about this.
I like to start with the bottom card as it is the root of everything. Then the root, the past and the future. This way seemed the most logical to me.
Darkmage
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who picked this up from Eden Gray.
There are a few variants out there, but the one I use is this:
1) Core
2) Crossing - can be obstacles, can be reinforcement depending on cards
3) Base - card below central cross. Represents past and/or basis of situation
4) Recent Past - this is the card to the immediate left of the central cross. Represents the influence just passing away. This influence is often still being felt and playing a role in the central situation, though its influence is waning.
5) Crown - card above central cross. Often means possible outcome, though it also often means forces just coming into consciousness.
6) Near future - this is the card to the immediate right of the central cross. Indicates influences coming into play, though the sitter may not necessarily be consciously aware of them at the time the reading is done.
7) Self - base of staff. The sitter's position on the issue or what they really feel, whether or not they want to admit it.
8) Environment - what the sitter's environment feels about the situation at hand. This can be positive, it can be negative, it depends. Usually when there's a definite contradiction between this and 7 it means someone is acting in a manner contradictory to what they really feel and/or putting a good face on things.
9) Sitter's Hopes/Fears - this position tells me what the querent feels about a situation for better or worse. It may or may not gel with what they openly *say* they feel or what their environment says.
10) Final Outcome - this is what it says it is. This card is the summary of all that's gone before.
Does this help?
The CC is far and away my go-to spread as it often gives a clear overview of the situation at hand as well as advice on how to deal with it.
There are a few variants out there, but the one I use is this:
1) Core
2) Crossing - can be obstacles, can be reinforcement depending on cards
3) Base - card below central cross. Represents past and/or basis of situation
4) Recent Past - this is the card to the immediate left of the central cross. Represents the influence just passing away. This influence is often still being felt and playing a role in the central situation, though its influence is waning.
5) Crown - card above central cross. Often means possible outcome, though it also often means forces just coming into consciousness.
6) Near future - this is the card to the immediate right of the central cross. Indicates influences coming into play, though the sitter may not necessarily be consciously aware of them at the time the reading is done.
7) Self - base of staff. The sitter's position on the issue or what they really feel, whether or not they want to admit it.
8) Environment - what the sitter's environment feels about the situation at hand. This can be positive, it can be negative, it depends. Usually when there's a definite contradiction between this and 7 it means someone is acting in a manner contradictory to what they really feel and/or putting a good face on things.
9) Sitter's Hopes/Fears - this position tells me what the querent feels about a situation for better or worse. It may or may not gel with what they openly *say* they feel or what their environment says.
10) Final Outcome - this is what it says it is. This card is the summary of all that's gone before.
Does this help?
The CC is far and away my go-to spread as it often gives a clear overview of the situation at hand as well as advice on how to deal with it.
Barleywine
Although her book is about Lenormand, Rana George has a section about using tarot and Lenormand together, and gives her version of the CC. I got a couple of new wrinkles from her that reinforce my own approach, so I'll toss them in. She brings in a little of the "above" and "below" flavor of the Grand Tableau that seems to fit well.
I won't go into the "covering" and "crossing" cards since they are more environmental and aren't moving forward in time.
The bottom card (that which is beneath), as the "distant past," represents what has been established and isn't subject to change. The foundation of the matter. Rana: "What the client has under control or what the client is accepting."
The card to the left (that which is behind), as the "recent past," shows recent developments in the matter that may still be working themselves out.
The card on top (that which is above) is one I've tweaked a bit. I was never happy with the "what may come to pass" notion since it kind of takes a detour from the "timeline" idea. So I just call it "the present as the realm of possibilities," which conveys a similar idea but ties it in to the temporal progression. The thought is that the situation is still "plastic" and the querent has a range of options available. I often see it as an awakening or a "turning point." Rana: "On the client's mind" (as in a "preoccupation").
The card to the right (that which is before), as the "near future," represents what I think of as an interim "reckoning point" that is still transitional and subject to influence by any action the querent brings to bear after taking stock of the situation. (This is also the last card that addresses the circumstances surrounding the question; the querent's status is shown by the "staff" positions.)
In practice, I read "behind, above and before" in a rather fluid way, since the recent past, the present and the near future are inextricably bound together and it can be tricky to tell where one influence leaves off and the next one begins. So I read the three cards as a closely-knit continuum.
Note that "behind" to the left and "before" to the right follows the convention that looking or moving to the left signifies the Past, and going to the right, the Future, regardless of which way the significator (if you happen to use one) is facing.
rwcarter
I was right in that it's Tarot for Your Self in which Mary talks about the Celtic Cross Permutations. It's in Chapter 6. She looks at the following permutations:
Hope this helps,
Rodney
- The Turning Wheel - rotating the cards that surround the cross one turn at a time and interpreting the cards in each of the positions
- Past, Present, Future - group specific cards from the reading into groups of past, present and future and interpret them
- The Whole Person Summary Spread - sort the cards into suits (Wands through Pentacles and then Majors at the bottom), centering the cards to form a balanced visual image and then look at them as an overview
- Yod He Vau He - The Path of Hermes - arrange specific positions from the Celtic Cross into three overlapping triangles and interpret them as described in the book
Hope this helps,
Rodney
Farzon
Thanks, Rodney! ^^
This sounds very interesting. I think I'll go for that book.... I have to stock up my Tarot library anyway
I don't think I like AE Waite's way of having the significator look into the future.... In the CC I never use significators. To me, they only make sense in spreads like the Opening Of The Key, where their position is of importance, not when they are taken out of the deck in the first place. To those who do use one in the CC: what benefits do you get from using them?
This sounds very interesting. I think I'll go for that book.... I have to stock up my Tarot library anyway
I don't think I like AE Waite's way of having the significator look into the future.... In the CC I never use significators. To me, they only make sense in spreads like the Opening Of The Key, where their position is of importance, not when they are taken out of the deck in the first place. To those who do use one in the CC: what benefits do you get from using them?
