Tarot Balbi and IJJ Swiss Questions

I recently bought 3 second-hand decks -- 2 decks of Tarot Balbi which have different boxes and one seems slightly older, and 1 x IJJ Swiss. I am hoping someone can help me identify when these 3 decks were made. I have done extensive research and all the information I have found seems to be conflictive. Both decks were originally published in the mid-70s and I believe are now OPP (?). Multiple reproductions of both decks have been made (?). Are these specific decks reproductions or originals, and are these decks worth anything today? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

ETA: Please see next post for more pictures as I have exceeded my limit of uploads in this post.

I have attached pictures of what the cards look like. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Tarot Balbi cards.

I think the Balbi on the right is the older one. I have various editions of the Balbi and certainly the one on the right is the box I got when I bought my first one in the early 80s so I guess that was leftover stock from 1975. There is no perceptible difference in the cards, but don't you find that one (the one on the left?) feels a tiny bit more cardboardy, less silky than the one on the right? That has been my impression.

The 1JJ Swiss looks fairly modern because of the tuck box, except that the most modern ones have titles in English I think. The older editions have a two part box with gold bottom box and refer to AG Muller or Waddingtons rather than U.S games, but I could be wrong there.

You can still get the Balbi off the shelf in the Museo del Tarot in Spain. Quite expensive I think; far better to pick one up on ebay. I have seen them languish unsold for, like, $80 and I have snapped a couple up for about 20 GBPs. They are broadly desirable I think, but non-scenic Minors are not so desirable as other RWS-based decks.

The 1JJ seems to be going up a bit in price and yet it was once so ubiquitous. But still in the 20 GBP price range from what I see watching auctions.

Le Fanu said:

I think the Balbi on the right is the older one. I have various editions of the Balbi and certainly the one on the right is the box I got when I bought my first one in the early 80s so I guess that was leftover stock from 1975. There is no perceptible difference in the cards, but don't you find that one (the one on the left?) feels a tiny bit more cardboardy, less silky than the one on the right? That has been my impression.

The 1JJ Swiss looks fairly modern because of the tuck box, except that the most modern ones have titles in English I think. The older editions have a two part box with gold bottom box and refer to AG Muller or Waddingtons rather than U.S games, but I could be wrong there.

You can still get the Balbi off the shelf in the Museo del Tarot in Spain. Quite expensive I think; far better to pick one up on ebay. I have seen them languish unsold for, like, $80 and I have snapped a couple up for about 20 GBPs. They are broadly desirable I think, but non-scenic Minors are not so desirable as other RWS-based decks.

The 1JJ seems to be going up a bit in price and yet it was once so ubiquitous. But still in the 20 GBP price range from what I see watching auctions.

Click to expand...

Yes, I can feel an ever-so-slight difference in the cardstock between the Balbi decks. That's about the only difference I can tell/see so far.

The only part of the IJJ deck that is written in English is the box and the 2 cards inside with a range of other titles you can buy from AGM AGMULLER and URANIA VERLAGS AG.

Both decks seem to go for anything between $40-$180 US dollars on eBay. It makes me wonder if some of the sellers actually know they're selling originals or reproductions.

It all seems very hard to decipher at this time.

With the IJJ Swiss, it's not the box that's important, it's the shield on the Emperor card.

eta WHOOPS, WHOOPS I got it wrong.
Tnanks to Midnite now I remember


The shield on some decks say "Fabrique de Cartes."
The others add "J Mueller"
I believe the one with Mueller is older by a few years.
I liked the more subtle coloring of the one without the Mueller name
I forgot, I keep them in a box from a different deck, the two-part red with gold interior.

Debra said:

With the IJJ Swiss, it's not the box that's important, it's the shield on the Emperor card.

The shield on the older decks say "Fabrique des Cartes." If there's a lwb, it's got 1969 on the first page. In the newer printing, which is brighter and glossier, the Emperor's shield is blank.

Click to expand...

The Emperor (L'Empereur) card.

I'm sure the Balbi on the right is the older one; it is identical with the one I bought in New York in 1981. (I see it shows up on a Spanish auction site as published 1975; mine I have listed as 1976 !) The other also seems to be printed by Fournier and is selling in three places for $110. It seems to have an ISBN in some examples, which the older one does not.

The older one sold recently for $25 on http://en.todocoleccion.net - which is quite a good place to find used Fournier decks at reasonable prices. It mentions the LWB, whcih you don't mention.

The 1JJ in French is the first way USG put it out via AGM. I have so many it isn't funny.... The first one I'm aware of was in a lift top box, which just said "Tarot Cards" of which the bottom half was gold. That was around 1970 - I bought one in Kmart (yes I DO mean Kmart !) in 1975; it marked the beginning of Kaplan's Tarot Enterprise at USG ! There are actually quite a few on ebay at a good price right now.

The tuck box is newer. I am not sure when, but one site suggests 1992 - I think more like 80s, given the sort of over-printed ISBN. For a while there were only French language ones around, many in a box calling itself a game. Then there were only English ones; it seemed to swing one way and then the other. The ISBN seeming to have been "added" later indicates it wasn't the FIRST tuckbox printing, if you see what I mean. A 13 digit ISBN would date it as post 2006.

Some people don't seem to care about money; a local used bookshop I like had some very HTF decks a couple of years ago - I had them already, and was picking them up as I know people here would buy them ! - as I like the place, I said to the owner that he could get serious cash on ebay for three of them. "Oh I can't be bothered." Others charge obscene amounts - there's a normal in print deck on amazon as we speak, asking over $1000 !

Thank you, gregory.

With all the information I have received here I have concluded that all 3 decks are quite old and valuable. The Balbi on the right most likely being the original from the mid-70s, the Balbi on the left probably being from the 80s, and finally the 1JJ looking to be from the 80s also.

One thing's for sure and that is that I picked up a bargain that day paying only $2 ($1.60 US dollars) per deck. The guy wanted to give them to me for a mere 50¢ because it was getting late in the day but I didn't feel right only giving him $1.50 for all three decks.

Thanks for your help guys. I have learnt a lot.

You might like to see these 1JJs
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/sumadas-treasure-box/collections/72157642583997605/

Sumada said:

You might like to see these 1JJs
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/sumadas-treasure-box/collections/72157642583997605/

Click to expand...

Interesting, Sumada, thanks for posting. Looking at your images I can see the middle Emperor is the one I have, as well as the middle card of the reverses is the one I have. What year do you think my copy of 1JJ is?