Ghetto Tarot Art Project

gregory

I think you make good points barefootlife and it is important to know all the information on any deck, but especially one like this. Please though, do not make assumptions that those who might disagree, and on more than just the word ghetto, haven't read all the info on the indiegogo page about the creation of this deck. :)

And for me it's not just a personal comfort thing, I find the whole idea offensive. It's also it's about sharing the deck with friends with whom I know it would cause offense, again, not just the word but the entire concept. I care about that. I don't want to put my $ down on a project I disagree with; but I support the right of others to do it.

What would not have been offensive to someone like me you might think: Handing the camera -and- the project to the art group. Taking a step back. Be an advisor. Hey, she chose not to do that and it's her project. That's why I'm passing on this one.

:livelong:
I read it ALL before I backed it. And sure - lovely idea to pass the camera to the group. How good would the result have been compared to hers, though ? Sometimes you want to use all the talents you can muster - even a - shock horror - white Belgian person working outside her own country who happens to be really hot stuff with a camera. I'd bet they were glad to have her talent in there.

I might be a bit over-sensitive here. It ist true that people making a general claim of the sort "she doesn't have the right or the legitimacy" normally can't physically prevent other people from doing what they don't want them to do. "Just" expressing an opinion doesn't describe the subject very well either though.

I'd rather draw the line where an expression of disdain (opinion, fine by me) turns into social pressure and the disparagement of other's artwork/viewpoints as someting morally inferior. The latter is a form of powerplay that may be less effective than raw physical power, but that shows a similar mindset. Many people who build up this social pressure would (without admitting it) actually like to restrict freedom of art and speech.
This is so VERY true.

I never said I intended to buy the deck, it's too large and I don't need another RWS clone, especially not a slavish one. What I think is a shame is an inability to appreciate art on its own merits without trying to politicize it. I admire the ingenuity and fidelity of the artists, especially if they felt appropriately acknowledged and compensated for their work, and couldn't care less about second-guessing the assumed motives of the white artist/entrepreneur, who probably had connections and resources to help make it happen in the first place. Was it a "win-lose" proposition, or "win-win?" There were a great many "blaxploitation" films from the '80s that made a far more egregious case for the former.

Saying that all art is political is taking a rather narrow and claustrophobic view of art, with which I certainly don't agree. It has often been so, but not to the exclusion of all other forms of motivation.[/quote
I agree with both your posts 100%

. . . and about what she did, rather nice , isn't it? })
Yes. It's a lovely deck. And no-one I have shown mine to has had any problem with it.
 

banbha

Yes, that's true. You have been dragged into a discussion that you aren't responsible for. I had that feeling before. I don't really think we disagree on this meta-stuff anyway, do we?

No, I don't think so.

So back to the deck: Isn't a bit of offense inherent to every kind of art? I am sure the rather emblematic bare breasts in the original RWS deck have rather been a scandal back when it came out... And how boring is art that isn't controversial at all. Even if your work is almost entirely abstract (think Mamluk card reproduction as a far fetched example) people at least disagree on whether hand drawn or strictly symmetric construction is better.

Yes, and I think it's part of the discussion too.

A woman's naked body is a whole other political discussion. :)

I don't see the Ghetto deck as scandalous though. It's actually very typical.

In those mild cases like with the ghetto tarot people should learn to cope with feeling offended or at least admit that this can be a form of indirect powerplay too (not always of course).

Well, or just not purchase it. ;)
 

banbha

I read it ALL before I backed it. And sure - lovely idea to pass the camera to the group. How good would the result have been compared to hers, though ?

Maybe more like their work instead of hers?

ETA: I've no doubt you read it all.
 

Barleywine

I read it ALL before I backed it. And sure - lovely idea to pass the camera to the group. How good would the result have been compared to hers, though ? Sometimes you want to use all the talents you can muster - even a - shock horror - white Belgian person working outside her own country who happens to be really hot stuff with a camera. I'd bet they were glad to have her talent in there.

This, then, begs the question "Who recruited whom?" If they had the idea and hired her as advisor and photographer, I can well imagine they were delighted with her professional contribution. If she had the idea and simply hired the troupe to pose for her, I can't imagine that the images would have come out as inspired as many of them seem to be (at least in my estimation). Somehow, solely at the level of "art," this comes across as a truly collaborative effort between artists.
 

gregory

This, then, begs the question "Who recruited whom?" If they had the idea and hired her as advisor and photographer, I can well imagine they were delighted with her professional contribution. If she had the idea and simply hired the troupe to pose for her, I can't imagine that the images would have come out as inspired as many of them seem to be (at least in my estimation). Somehow, solely at the level of "art," this comes across as a truly collaborative effort between artists.
I agree. And I have no idea who initiated it - it seems to have been her IDEA, going from the old history I have here. She'd known the artists and their work for a long time - but they are mostly into sculpture, not photography.

It works and it FEELS collaborative.