A New Way of Looking at your Natal Chart

Minderwiz

Well my Saturn is angular, although on the twelfth house side. but only 2 degrees 20 mins from the Ascendant (and of course the Moon is a similar distance from the Descendant, in the sixth). The dreaded Chiron is conjunct the IC, by 2.5 degrees. However I think that you, like me, sensibly eschew the wounded healer.
 

dadsnook2000

Comments on Minderwiz's chart

Minderwiz, your most significant mid-or-outer planet is Saturn on your Ascendant. Saturn trines Uranus within some 5 degrees, a little loose for my general use in orbs, but OK due to the angular Saturn's importance plus another factor which I'll get to a bit later. Due to their closeness, Pluto and Saturn would have conjoined near their natal position --- this was the case on August 11th of 1942 at 13 Leo. We can treat this pair as if still in that conjunction point of their cycle. With Mars also in the mix, so to speak, we would see Mars as as conjuncting, cyclewise, both Pluto and Saturn at their present natal chart positions in the 12th house. Mars would conjunct Pluto just a week or so after your birth and Saturn shortly after that.

One other key pattern in your chart is Saturn at the Ascendant, Venus at the IC, and Moon at the Descendant ---- a "paran" T-Square. Planets at adjacent or opposite angles, even if the degree-aspect isn't operative (i.e. 90 degrees) are called "paran" aspects; they rise, set, culminate and/or anti-culminate at the same time. They are considered very strong.

Our first step will be to look at only these (above) chart factors in terms of how they relate to you, Minderwiz.

A) Saturn-Venus-Moon, as a paran T-square, has a severe interpretation "Changes of mood, inhibitions in love-expression, lack of self-confidence, the capability to renounce. Resignation, the inclination to stand alone in love or marriage, etc." Now, before we all send Minderwiz sympathy cards, lets take a look at how this all might actually play out. Love and harmony at the IC can point one to dropping one nice situation and being attracted to the next, leading to the "stand alone in love" phrase whenever one gets caught between what one had and what one wants. Soon or later we learn to grab what we want before we let go of what we don't want quite as much. Plus, we have a lot yet to understand before we get carried away by one statement.

Saturn opposite the Moon suggests that one takes life seriously and prefers to develop a depth of understanding from which to take action. This can also incline one to seek out older people or younger people so that one's depth of understanding can either by sought from others or given to others as a basis for interaction. This placement requires (a Saturn word) a plan, a self-discipline, a cautionary approach to life such as operating on familiar ground. One may choose a spouse who reflects (Moon word) the qualities of one of the parents, although the rules you grew up with will not be the rules that govern your future and your family.

We can summarize all of this, before we even go on to the other factors that we will cover, as seeing these patterns being expressed as one who takes relationships seriously, values them, want harmony and beauty to be solid and conventional, looks for others to mirror their expectations and wishes, and will seek to always iron out any differences to maintain a sense of calm in his world.

B) The Saturn-sextile-Uranus pattern; Sextiles seek to understand and to communicate/moderate varied energies. Associated with knowledge and its gathering or dissemination, this combination requires self-discipline and skills in ones work with others (professionalism) as others tend to see you as the one who knows what to do or how something works. This suggests positions of leading, instruction, training, etc. as being fields of endeavor. You will enjoy socializing with those who have significant credentials of their own, rather than socializing with those whom you teach.

C) The heavy stuff in the 12th; Mars, Pluto (and Saturn) is indeed a "heavy" pattern according to the books ---- anger, control, severity. But, as a part of everyday life we cannot typically live within these "words." Let us instead consider word groupings such as "effort, intensity or curiosity, persistence." Or, "building, control, structure". Or, "physical action, application of force, channeled direction." Cast these words in a 12th house setting and we can see many realistic and constructive possibilities --- research, cybernetics, martial arts, construction, teaching, counseling, managing, "special forces" people in the military, sports figures, etc. all acting quietly, or in solitary positions without direct guidance, behind the scenes but effective in one-on-one situations.

**** Now, lets look at this chart in terms of the situation of your parents at the time of your birth. These same patterns will likely have a much different nuance when applied to them.

D) Saturn-Moon-Venus; a sharp divide of some sort is indicated here as the drain on resources versus the needs of the moment seems to have required a shift of priorities for the resulting "harmonization of a new life in the home" (Venus at the IC). Following the war years, much of the economical picture was murky at best, jobs were scarce, a conversion from a military focus to a commercial focus had to be organized, so new parents probably had a tough situation to cope with.

E) The Saturn-sextile-Uranus pattern suggests that pre-war jobs were much in chaos as new technology and management teams tried to plan, incorporate and fund rebuilding and start-up situations. Were your parents ready for the new changes or for competing for old jobs/skills that were being done away with or pursued by too many others? What choices should one make in seeking new work, in preparing for new requirements?

F) In Early May of 1942, Uranus and Saturn conjoined at 29 Taurus (later to be in your 10th house near your N.Node) suggesting that the upcoming year and years would see changes in the status quo. On the war front, 1942 saw the tide turn against the Germans, and improved armaments and technologies were being developed to have a later effect. The conjunction point would later be opposite your natal Jupiter position. (Your fathers natal Jupiter was a few degrees away at your natal IC position). For you, opportunities would be linked to your ability to recognize coming changes in societies needs. For your father (or mother, perhaps), much would have occurred at that time to make him/her/them impress upon you the need to be prepared for change in your life. (For you, Saturn will strategically prepare for the changes that Uranus points out, for the 12th house may be "hidden" but it is also the house of preparation for new things). At that point in time, transiting Jupiter (21 Gemini) was trine your natal Moon position. This suggests that your mother might have played a role in your education and the subtle recognition/encouragement to plan for change in your life.

In summary, it might be from your perspective that your parents were only partially successful in adapting the wholesale changes of their world but were able to instill in you the need to be able to do what they had hoped to do for themselves. Your parent's Suns were opposed to each other, your dad's Sun in your 1st house opposite your mom's Sun in the 7th. They seemed to take satisfaction in your accomplishments.

Since so much of this touches on personal feelings and impressions, the list will have to accept that you may not choose to comment on some of this material. PS --- a sudden thought or question, "Did your parents take on very different work after your birth than what they had done earlier?"
Dave
 

Minderwiz

There's a lot there Dave, so I'll try and comment on it as best I can, though it might require some breaks between posts whilst I think it over!. It's also difficult to be objective about yourself.

Comments:

A). Yes, I agree that the main feature of my chart is the angularity of Saturn, Moon and Venus. No I've never had problems with mood changes or ever felt that was a feature of me. Though I am very sensitive to changes in other people's moods. Inhibitions and lack of self confidence were severe problems of childhood but tended to recede from age 13 or so and virtually went following my first Saturn return. Yes I have a strong independent streak and I got married just before my first Saturn return. Yes I do (or did) take life seriously and yes I was a planner (though never as much as my Virgo Ascendant daughter) As I've grown older my Leo side has exerted itself more and I am more relaxed, especially over the last 10 years or so. Yes familar ground is nice BUT there's a clear side of me that loves the unusual, unexpected and unfamiliar. Yes a fair summary of my approach to beauty and harmony. I hate disharmony!!

My wife does have a Pisces Moon, so that's something of a relection of my mother, however temperamentally she's very different from either of my parents.

B) Yes I'm a retired Lecturer, and the love of learning is defintely there. As to not socialising with those whom I taught - I used to love it and I married one of my students :) Last few years I've tended not to so much. I have put my love of learning down to Mercury beseiged by the two benefics and conjunct the South Node. My Aquaries Moon is also Almuten of the MC

C) I don't get angry easily if at all. Indeed I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've 'lost it' in 62 years (and still have a couple of fingers left over). I can deal with confrontational situation best when I am in control (Saturn again). The 'Leo' nature suggests that an outlet is through play. Mars for me seems to be 'in reserve'. I don't often assert myself, and almost never in anger. However when I do need to assert, I do so with purpose and control and can be very effective. Yes, I do like to operate in the background and again Colleges are 12th house institutions from the point of view of 'employment' rather than as places you go as part of your education.

Yes, I do prefer one to one situations.

OK that's the first three. I'll have a think about the rest and then perhaps post my take on them, followed by my take on the approach.
 

Minderwiz

Sorry for the delay - not so much because of thinking but starting house cleaning :(

D) Well yes, there was a transition from forces to home life, but then that was a fairly universal experience at that time LOL. My parents married in 1944, when both of them were in the armed forces. At the time Saturn was slowing down towards its Station Retrograde, which it reached on October 24th 1944, three years to the day before my birth.

On demobilisation my parents started a small business and did live on the premises, so home was important LOL

E)As above my parents weren't married before the war but No, new technologies, etc don't seem to have any effect on either of them. Both my dad's trade and my mum's job at the immediate pre war time are jobs which are still going now and have only begun to be affected by technology (in my mum's case in the last 10 years or so).

F) I'm really not sure of this - I don't really consciously recognise it. Yes my mother influenced my pre school education but then mother's do. I don't think they impressed anything about the need for change and adaption but I can't say that they did not. It's never been a big issue for me though (or an issue at all). 'societies need' is a vague concept and could mean anything so I haven't got any direct comment there.

Looking back, I actually think they adapted to the changed world very well. When I was about 8 My parents took on the local post office, a venture which they saw through to retirement and one that gave them a better quality of life. That actually gave me a very settled and stable home life. They certainly encouraged me to make the best of my opportunities, as in my dad's youth he had been unable too. So I got the support to go on to University.

Yes my mum's sun does lie in my seventh but my dad's sun is in my second very near the third house cusp. The signs are antiscion to each other, though the degree separation is too wide to count strongly.

On your last question, yes and no. It depends how much after my birth LOL. As I said above the change in their work/lives came when I was around 8 and it was to less demanding work rather than moe demanding.
 

dadsnook2000

Next

Interesting, not as illustrative as one might hope in terms of my expectations. Thanks for your detailed reply. I think we need a couple of volunteers so that we can expand our play with this concept. A few more examples might highlight some factors that we need to better understand. It might be that the 4-10 axis needs to be more populated, or that close groupings (which indicate the start of a cycle) aren't as easy/clear to understand, or that maybe this idea just isn't worth exploring.

So, volunteers, stand up, hands up, take a chance on either learning something about yourself or becoming further confused in our astrological playpen. Dave
 

Minderwiz

Well it's always difficult to be objective about yourself, so others might see some of that differently, though I have been as honest as I can.

I think the idea of using the slower moving planets to see if there were tie ins with events in the lives of parents, is an interesting one. I certainly wouldn't want to dismiss it and it's a possible good use for Uranus and Neptune as chronocrators.
 

dadsnook2000

For lilangel09

Thank you for posting. I have about two days of work remaining on a project and then I'll address your charts. I hope that we may all find some inspiration and learning from this kind of playful exercise ---- its how we push our personal limits in astrology and find new ideas to consider. Dave