caridwen
I haven't contradicted you. I have also agreed that the both use the Book T.
Where did Waite get these meanings?
I haven't contradicted you. I have also agreed that the both use the Book T.
caridwen
As far as I can see, your original question has been answered. You have been given links to the Book T, essays by Waite and other resources. The same information is now being repeated and has been summed up quite nicely by 'auntie'.
The Book of Thoth is a different beast and has its own forum
La Force
As far as I can see, your original question has been answered. You have been given links to the Book T, essays by Waite and other resources. The same information is now being repeated and has been summed up quite nicely by 'auntie'.
The Book of Thoth is a different beast and has its own forum
Please dont get me wrong, Yes my main question was answered, and Auntie s did. Not asking to repeat or rehash, its just LRichard, and Lee brough up some added info. So I am interested, cause it does fit here, doesnt mean we get into the thoth, i just want know more about what LRichard said about the fives and their meanings.
Lee
Good question, unfortunately I don't have any resources to provide. At the time the Golden Dawn was founded, astrology was still very prediction-oriented and fatalistic. Alan Leo changed the course of Western astrology by steering it into a more spiritual and psychological mode, but he was just getting started in his evolution toward that paradigm when the GD was founded, and so the GD's astrological interpretations would have been more old-school. You could probably look at any astrology text from before 1910 to get an idea of what standard astrological interpretations were like then. You might want to look for works by Raphael or Sepharial.
I'm not an expert on astrology, so I'll happily defer to those more knowledgeable.
La Force
A big thank you. Okay. I have LRichard information, as resource, andd because astrology today is too much for me, I will check out the older, to camparission with what LRichard said and find how can I say the brain link where I can comprehend and rember. Cause I'm trying to rewire my brain. I not joking I relearn tarot everyday., small amounts I can retain, the rest goes. I am always ready to learn and find creative alternative ways.
Lee
I just recalled a good resource for you. I no longer have this book, but I believe Lon Milo Duquette's book "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" includes discussion of the pip cards in terms of astrological interpretations of the Decans (as LRichard points out, it's all applicable to the RWS). Maybe someone more familiar with the book can chime in and confirm my memory.
caridwen
ravenest
In regard to these 'mysteries' ...
Yes. I agree , time and time again, when delving into the depths of hermetic tarot, I have realised its better to just go to Thoth. Waite didn't reveal a lot of it and where he couldn't he seems to have patched 'non-esoteric tarot traditions' or 'his own' mythology to the deck. The G.D. even held people to keep secret 'under oath' the Hebrew letter attribution to the Majors !
Of course, any Freemasonic revelations back then would be equally oath bound ... I mean women were (and still aren't ) privy to those mysteries .... and a women painted the cards).
Of course Crowley never worried about Freemasonry secrets either (he initiated women into AA and OTO and Frieda was a Co-Mason (and painted masonic tracing boards). the only thing Crowley seems oath bound by in the Thoth is OTO oaths ... even though he hints deeply at them ... and where they ARE alluded to in the imagery , he points it out and declares it is a mystery (but not what the mystery is).
And those 5 's ! - one of the points where the difficulty in matching cosmological Kabbalah with psychological tarot surfaces.
Yes. I agree , time and time again, when delving into the depths of hermetic tarot, I have realised its better to just go to Thoth. Waite didn't reveal a lot of it and where he couldn't he seems to have patched 'non-esoteric tarot traditions' or 'his own' mythology to the deck. The G.D. even held people to keep secret 'under oath' the Hebrew letter attribution to the Majors !
Of course, any Freemasonic revelations back then would be equally oath bound ... I mean women were (and still aren't ) privy to those mysteries .... and a women painted the cards).
Of course Crowley never worried about Freemasonry secrets either (he initiated women into AA and OTO and Frieda was a Co-Mason (and painted masonic tracing boards). the only thing Crowley seems oath bound by in the Thoth is OTO oaths ... even though he hints deeply at them ... and where they ARE alluded to in the imagery , he points it out and declares it is a mystery (but not what the mystery is).
And those 5 's ! - one of the points where the difficulty in matching cosmological Kabbalah with psychological tarot surfaces.
ravenest
Yeah well , I wanted to keep it simple. There are a range of energies available to Scorpio ... in a way Death card represents all of them and the three Scorpio Minor cards are sections of that energy ... but it will be modified by number of the card as well. Here are some simple basics for astrology and tarot (and I am sorry if I am getting TOO basic here); Try laying out your deck with the major cards that are attributed to the zodiac in a circle, then outside that lay out the minor cards ( the twos to the tens of each suit) 3 to each sign and visually observe for a while the set up ) again the Thoth deck is easier for this as the titles, the zodiac signs and the planetary symbols are written on them.
Again, trying not to complicate things but in regard to minor card meanings, in other threads we came up with this;
? (Minor cards 'meaning' { or energy or influence} ) = suit ( also the element or 'world') x number ( Kabbalistic sephiroth, 1 - 10 ) x astrological sign (shown on the Thoth card) x decan (as annoted by the planetary symbol on the card)
So it seems a meaning is a combination of suit, number, sign and decan of that sign, some add planet (but it was an inconclusive discussion on that point ). With Waite we have had to add the X factor (that is censorship or concealment and replacement with something else ... for some issues.)
ravenest
Yes! And if one wants to nut THAT out and follow the source (instead of just assuming its the same) check out some G.D. papers (like the projection of the Tree of Life onto the Celestial Sphere usinf tarot cards and the accompanying stella maps - VERY differnt ... and the whole GD system itself is different . Personally I dont think they could get A grippa on it
