Lenormand Discussion - The Mice

lord_ewin

Someone on another forum asked an interesting question, and I thought I'd share it with all of you for the sake of having a nice discussion on each of the card's meanings. I think I will make this sort of exchange a monthly or at least a reoccurring discussion on various cards (Food for though, if you will) to keep you thinking about blending meanings with other cards. This month, I'd like to tackle the Mice given the person's question.

The person wanted to know if there was a specific job you could assign to the Mice Card in general.

My problem with assigning a specific job meaning to the mice is that the card is more of a contextual modifier than a black and white defined outcome or job definition.

The mice taint the cards surrounding it in a negative way, they indicate stress, theft, worry, nervous energy, loss of income, money troubles, etc. There are a lot of stressful jobs out there. There are a lot of jobs that rob you of energy and time, there are even more jobs that don't seem to pay enough for what you're putting into things.

If you really want to explore a modifier's meaning, you need to pair it up with another card.

For example:

The Mice + The Ring could mean that an formal agreement, engagement or obligation isn't going to be favorable.

The Mice + The House could indicate that the house is a money pit, needs lots of repairs, that a theft occurred or will occur.

The Mice + The Letter could indicate worrying and upsetting news.

The Mice + The Gentleman or The Lady could be a nervous, negative, otherwise emotionally draining person.


If you're attributing it to a work context to get an indication of what they do, you'd need more than just the mice to go on. As an example:


The Tower + The Mice could indicate someone who protects people from financial problems (if there are business cards around like the fish) or someone who helps ppl with their worries.

I welcome your comments and your thoughts. :D And happy discussions if any. :)

LE
 

lark

How about an exterminator?
 

GryffinSong

This is really, really interesting! As a complete Lenormand newbie, it's VERY helpful to see how you relate the various cards to each other, and I look forward to reading more when you have time. :)
 

lord_ewin

GryffinSong said:
This is really, really interesting! As a complete Lenormand newbie, it's VERY helpful to see how you relate the various cards to each other, and I look forward to reading more when you have time. :)

I'm glad that helps..! :) The whole basis of Lenormand is how the cards relate to one another in a spread. Alone, they're not much more than an overall impression: "A circle of friends; sickness; attraction; lust; depression, loyalty, etc," but once you relate one with the other... that's when the magic really starts.


My favorite example is this combo:


......The Man + the Ring + The Woman.........
..........................vs................................
The Man + the Ring + the Heart + The Woman


Anyone care to try their hand and interpret those two strings?
 

matchyg

I like this idea of a discussion thread on each card. I was going to suggest per deck as well if people are interested.

Mice + Fish = Lack of Abundance
Mice + Owl = Alot of mental worry and suffering.
 

GryffinSong

lord_ewin said:
I'm glad that helps..! :) The whole basis of Lenormand is how the cards relate to one another in a spread. Alone, they're not much more than an overall impression: "A circle of friends; sickness; attraction; lust; depression, loyalty, etc," but once you relate one with the other... that's when the magic really starts.


My favorite example is this combo:


......The Man + the Ring + The Woman.........
..........................vs................................
The Man + the Ring + the Heart + The Woman


Anyone care to try their hand and interpret those two strings?

I've thought about this awhile and I'm not sure, but it did spark a bunch of thoughts based on how the imagery is presented in a particular deck.

I pulled out the three first cards from my art nouveau. If I lay them out ...

woman + ring + man

... the man and woman are looking at each other past a woman admiring a ring. The man and woman look formal, and the woman with the ring is in her nightgown looking soft and romantic. My immediate thought is that a mistress has come between a husband and wife. Perhaps in this layout the man and woman are trying to remain friendly, because they're looking at each other. Either talking about the issue or trying to reconcile. OR that the mistress is the focus of both their attentions.

If I switch the cards around so that its ...

man + ring + woman

... the man and woman are facing away from each other. So I might interpret this as saying that the mistress has come between them and they are breaking (or broken) up with no thought/hope of reconciliation.

The fact that the ring bearer looks completely taken with her ring leads me to wonder if she won't fall into the same trap as the woman. Expecting this to last with disappointment in her future.

When I take out my Astrological Lenormand it looks completely different. There's no woman in the ring card, and the lady and gent are much more mature. They seem steady and middle aged or more, but the woman looks a little sad. Is the ring a gift between them? If so, why? Is she sad for a reason? Perhaps a mistress like in the art nouveau? Or is she just bored with their relationship? Or perhaps they're both so rich and bored that life simply isn't interesting anymore. At any rate, in this deck I don't see passion between them! LOL

Perhaps its the addition of the heart that would add passion?

I'm beginning to see a glimmer of the magic you speak of. I look forward to exploring more combinations.

---

And now, back to mice. :)

I was really struck that you say mice is about deception and such. In both of my decks the mice are adorable! I'm not generally a rodent fan, and if these were rats I'd definately see deception and other negative connotations in this card. The Art Nouveau shows three little mice, cute as all get out. They're all looking in different directions and appear to be curious and getting into everything. Playful actually. I find myself wanting to pick one up and cuddle it. LOL With the sunflowers and vines in the borders I'm reminded of field mice.

The mouse in the Astrological looks a little worried, like perhaps a cat is around the corner waiting to pounce! This one seems a bit more like it might be an indoor mouse that could cause some trouble.
 

lord_ewin

I'm glad you enjoyed the exercise. You really got into the artists' interpretations of the cards in the way you suggested that they were looking at each other, and had fun reversing them, etc. In the end, you got exactly what I was trying to drive at:


GryffinSong said:
Perhaps its the addition of the heart that would add passion?


A commitment (the ring), by itself, is not an indication of love. It's only a form of attachment, and a rather cool one at that. Add to that commitment some passion and we're suddenly well on our way to something a lot better and much more promising.


GryffinSong said:
I was really struck that you say mice is about deception and such. In both of my decks the mice are adorable! I'm not generally a rodent fan, and if these were rats I'd definately see deception and other negative connotations in this card. The Art Nouveau shows three little mice, cute as all get out. They're all looking in different directions and appear to be curious and getting into everything. Playful actually. I find myself wanting to pick one up and cuddle it. LOL With the sunflowers and vines in the borders I'm reminded of field mice.

The mouse in the Astrological looks a little worried, like perhaps a cat is around the corner waiting to pounce! This one seems a bit more like it might be an indoor mouse that could cause some trouble.


Yes, you've let yourself influenced by the artist... :) and it's good to see it that way, and when you're on a roll, you should follow your intuition.

With Lenormand, I think it is important to move beyond the artist's interpretation, and head into the basic meaning of what the card represents. So far, you've explored the 'nice' mice aspect of the card. The mice we see in cages, that have been domesticated.

However, the nature of a mouse is different when it's no longer caged.

What would you say about the mice, if say... they were freed from their cage... if they were in your house, between the wall, getting to your food, leaving droppings under the counter, chewing through cables and scurrying about where you couldn't reach them? Say you had one or two... how long would you be with just the one or two mice?
 

GryffinSong

Thanks, this is all VERY interesting!!!

lord_ewin said:
...What would you say about the mice, if say... they were freed from their cage... if they were in your house, between the wall, getting to your food, leaving droppings under the counter, chewing through cables and scurrying about where you couldn't reach them? Say you had one or two... how long would you be with just the one or two mice?

Been there. Done that. LOL I lived/traveled in my RV for five years and had mice on two separate occasions. I don't think of myself as a hysterical female, but the first time I spotted one in there I almost screamed, ran to the other side of the room, and yelled at it to go away!!!

Mice turds everywhere. Wool hats, clothing and paper chewed and even damp with urine. Yup, they're nasty. I really struggled with their damage and the idea of killing. Fortunately for me I visited my mom shortly afterwards and she did all the trapping for me. I felt like such a wimp. The second time it happened I was able to take care of it myself, but I still really struggled. A hunter I am not!!! LOL

So I see the destructive side. And the invasive side. I'm still not sure where the deceptive side comes into play. Am I simply being too literal in expecting the visual symbols to line up with traditional Lenormand meanings? I definately want to learn the traditional meanings as well as whatever intuitive stuff I come up with. But my decks didn't come with a book and the lwb for the art nouveau doesn't say much. Do you have any recommendations on where to start? I browsed through some of this lenormand forum a few times but there's so much information that I felt swamped. Any clue where best to start?

Thanks again!!! :)