Is there another job coming - horary

Ronia

Hi Minderwiz, interesting discussion! Here is the November 7 chart: http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4850187&postcount=78 . I continue to think that Jupiter in 8th house, being the job (as I thought there would be only one then) signified the job that would not work as it was not acceptable. If you read our thoughts, we discussed it.

We'll have to elave the collection argument for now as I stick to my belief that Lily would have allowed marriage co-significators. It's not so much about him ignoring his own rules than it is about him not always taking the time to actually consider every existing possibility and include it, and then bam! he uses it. I will, in fact, embark on a research journey over the internet and try to find marriage charts where collection was allowed for co-significators. Such should be available and expecially in cultures where arranged marriages or using a matchmaker is still prominent. A third party, being used, could sometimes result in collection.

Now using Lilly's definition of Reception. The Moon cannot receive Jupiter, as Jupiter is in none of the dignities of the Moon. Also it's not clear, whether Jupiter is receiving the Moon. Yes the Moon is in Jupiter's Terms, but it won't be when the conjunction is perfected - Jupiter is in the Terms of Venus, which begins at 19 degrees and 1 second of Libra. Incidentally, both Sahl and Masha'allah would not allow Jupiter to receive the Moon, as they confine Reception proper,top domicile and Exaltation. They will allow weak
Reception through Triplicity and where the Received planet is in the Bounds AND the Face of the receiving planet, otherwise there is not Reception.


Eh, we have spoken about all the rules for reception many times. And we have often agreed that if all rules need to be met, reception will happen once in a Blue Moon. I personally absolutely freely ignore the unnecessary complications and I have never seen the Moon, in particular, being not received. Have you? If it was a malefic... and if it was with bad news... chances are they would be badly received if at all. I don't think horary is all about rules although I like the clean frame (which is not always as clean as it should be) but the context of the chart and the question should be taken into consideration, in my opinion. With the Moon as significator of events, I truly cannot remember a chart that she remained "outside" of the aspect. Now, to me, aspecting Jupiter and in the sign of Venus also allows for a positive environment.

By the way I wasn't talking about reception as in mutual or one side *reception* but that there is an applying aspect. I have never seen the Moon being rejected an aspect. Never. I also believe the terms about two of the smaller dignities+triplicity that you are quoting was referring namely to cases where we are looking for that kind of *reception* to assist a difficult aspect. This is not the case here. The aspect is conjunction and there is no need for *reception* to assist it and the beneficial nature of Jupiter as well as the nature of Moon do not imply they need aid.

The question is, does Jupiter still hold the Light of the Saturn, even though it is now separating from it. I think we have to say yes to that, otherwise Collection of Light would never be possible. So Mercury's disposition will be taken to Jupiter, by the Moon and in this case, we can consider Jupiter receiving the Moon, though as I said above there is some doubt as to whether that Reception stops after the Moon moves out of the Terms of Jupiter. If I remember rightly, Sahl or Masha'allah saw the withdrawal of reception in this way to be detrimental to perfection. Jupiter is withdrawing its support from the Moon.

That argument would also apply to my view of Jupiter as ruler of the tenth. The Moon would still be stronger as an agent of perfecting the matter, if it was received by Jupiter.


Same as above. To me the Moon is in general received. Even if L8 she will be received, for better or worse. I do not folow all the rules and requirements on reception although Is tick to the major ones. The rest to me is truly complicating matters to an extend where hardly any chart will perfect through reception and this is not helpful and often is not logical.

So let's work on Moon takes light of Mercury to Jupiter, which already holds the light of Saturn. It's a complex argument Are there any other problems? The only ones I can see are the slowness of the significators, especially Jupiter. which will station Retrograde next month (5th Feb) At best that suggests that the matter will be very slow in coming about. If the second job comes up, it will be delayed, even though Jupiter is in a Cardinal Sign, suggesting a quick outcome. Let's hope it works.

One company s currently checking my references after I went successfully through all interviews. I will be very surprised if they don't have a decision this week as the reference check is last step before an offer. I have two other interviews this coming week. I doubt there will be much delay if nothing extraordinary happens. And the Moon being the fastest in the whole system, I don't see how she could be slower than say, days. Jupiter's speed is irrelevant here as he is not applying. he is waiting.

And yes. The Will I get the job is probably best left to situations where you are clearly under consideration and they want to interview you.

Not really as nearly everyone wants to interview me. I cannot cast charts for 2-3 interviews a week. I only cast a new chart for a second job and one on the job with the currently ongoing reference check as this last one is on the verge of making an offer. However, I still think the original chart from November 7 should show a second offer/job if such is coming. If the chart was radical, it should reflect the flow of events correctly.
 

Minderwiz

I'm beginning to think we're at cross purposes on Reception. Classic Reception is of two types. Basic Reception where one planet aspects its ruler from one of its dignities. Strictly speaking those are Domicile of Exaltation. For example Moon in Libra trining Venus in Aquarius. Venus receives the Moon into Libra and provides a support to what or who the Moon is signifying. It's based on the Medieval notion of hospitality. A guest must be aided. Even if the Receiving planet were Saturn in Cancer, it's malefic nature will be tempered. and it will not damage the Moon through its square. or at least the effects will be less.

Mutual Reception is where both planets are in each other's Domicile or Exaltation. Originally that required an aspect as well for success but by Lilly's time, the rule had shifted such that Mutual Reception by Domicile could bring the matter to perfection.

Ronia said:
By the way I wasn't talking about reception as in mutual or one side *reception* but that there is an applying aspect. I have never seen the Moon being rejected an aspect.

There has to be an aspect before Reception (rather than mutual Reception) occurs. That aspect should be an applying one. Where the planets are separating there is a real question about whether Reception still exists. Certainly if one of the planets has changed dignities.

I'm nor sure what you mean by being rejected an aspect The only way that the Moon might miss out on an aspect is by prohibition, another planet gets there first (which is most unlikely) I didn't refer to any such thing. What I referred to was whether Reception had been withdrawn when the Moon left the Terms of Jupiter and entered the Terms of Venus. It would no longer be in a dignity of Jupiter but the Conjunction would still take place. (which for me might be good enought to ensure succeess, as I originally said.) BTW Clearly Lilly is willing to accept Reception involving minor dignities as his definition of Collection simply refers to 'some of their several dignities'

I simply took Lilly's definition and examined how far it held. My first thoughts were that the conjunction of the Moon with Jupiter would perfect the matter, though for reasons that you won't accept - Jupiter is the ruler of the tenth sign. I didn't require Reception when I made that statement and to be honest, I still don't though it would be a further argument in favour of perfection. I don't particularly like Lilly's definition of Collection either, though to be honest, I can see that Reception can boost the case. Actually Reception, as opposed to Mutual Reception occurs more frequently than you stated. I've seen a number of cases in the not too distant past but I don't insist on it to come to a positive judgement. reception is simply further testimony for a successful outcome.

Ronia said:
Eh, we have spoken about all the rules for reception many times. And we have often agreed that if all rules need to be met, reception will happen once in a Blue Moon. I personally absolutely freely ignore the unnecessary complications and I have never seen the Moon, in particular, being not received. Have you? If it was a malefic... and if it was with bad news... chances are they would be badly received if at all. I don't think horary is all about rules although I like the clean frame (which is not always as clean as it should be) but the context of the chart and the question should be taken into consideration, in my opinion. With the Moon as significator of events, I truly cannot remember a chart that she remained "outside" of the aspect. Now, to me, aspecting Jupiter and in the sign of Venus also allows for a positive environment.

Reception simply strengthens a case for perfection, over the case based on aspect alone. There is a possible case of the Moon not being received in the chart we're discussing. When the Moon moves out of the Terms of Jupiter, Reception will end. But the Moon is still applying to the conjunction and it will happen. It simply won't happen in a dignity of Jupiter. That weakens it as testimony to successful outcome but it doesn't destroy it. I can see the logic of the case for detriment coming from the loss of support but I wouldn't put any significant weight on it. I agree that being in the sign of Venus gives some additional weight to the conjunction. I must admit I don't understand what you mean by the Moon remaining outside of the aspect, unless you are confusing aspects and Reception.

No horary is not all about rules, though there are requirements relating to dignities (both essential and accidental) and to conditions such as translation and collection of light and prohibition etc. The chart gives a view of what's going on in the real world. I don't see Reception over complicating things, providing its treated as an indicator of a positive outcome and not a condition of a positive outcome - though if there were no Reception between significators in a relationship question, you might consider that the relationship either won't happen, even if there is an aspect between significators, or more likely won't last. If there's Reception between the two main significators in this job horary, it would signfy that your potential employees will like you and want to see you being employed by their company. a simple aspect might indicate that you get the job but that you either don't like it (and that's happened once before already) or that they decide to make your post redundant, without an alternative offer.



It would be good if we could actually haul Lilly up in front of us to give his version of whether the Moon can be included in Collection but I don't think we'd get that much sense out of a bunch of bones.
 

Ronia

Hi Minderwiz, I simply tried to diversify between an aspect from a planet being "accepted" if you prefer by the receiving planet and reception as "reception by domicile, exaltation, or minor dignities". To keep it simple. I do consider reception by minor dignities too, sure not as powerful but existing. The Moon is applying to Jupiter by conjunction and this is the aspect. If there is or no reception by dignities is not significant to me as , as I said, I haven't seen the Moon failing to be received except when she was main significator. As the singificator of events, I haven't seen her aspects not happening because of lack of reception. Just ,y thoughts. In short, I do think the Moon will deliver for different reasons from yours but still. :D

Yes, Lily could be useful.
 

Minderwiz

Hi Minderwiz, I simply tried to diversify between an aspect from a planet being "accepted" if you prefer by the receiving planet and reception as "reception by domicile, exaltation, or minor dignities". To keep it simple. I do consider reception by minor dignities too, sure not as powerful but existing. The Moon is applying to Jupiter by conjunction and this is the aspect. If there is or no reception by dignities is not significant to me as , as I said, I haven't seen the Moon failing to be received except when she was main significator. As the singificator of events, I haven't seen her aspects not happening because of lack of reception. Just ,y thoughts. In short, I do think the Moon will deliver for different reasons from yours but still. :D

Yes, Lily could be useful.


Just to be clear - you are saying that you wouldn't put weight on the Moon being in Jupiter's Terms on its own. you require an aspect that is completed. What we have is an applying aspect with the Moon in Jupiter's Terms, and despite the fact that the conjuntion will occur in the Terms of Venus, you're happy with that and take it as an indicator of success. If that's what you mean then I agree. Yes I would be happier if the aspect was perfected in the Terms of Jupiter but I don't see that movement out of those Terms as something that would wreck the process.

So I think we both feel that here will be a second job, though for different reasons. Please report back when the job comes up and you apply. I still think it's likely to be the Leisure and Hospitality industry, even if you are not specifically doing 'production' job - i.e. you would be applying for a Marketing or PR job or similar.

The significators are in the fifth which suggests Sports, Leisure or Entertainments or Hospitality and Venus is in the tenth house, even using Regiomontanus.
 

Ronia

Minderwiz, i did not ask about job I haven't applied to. As I said I keep applying every day, today included. I did ask about a job i will *get* as in an offer I will accept.

Yes, you got me right on the aspect. But my main point of reference for a second offer coming remains the November 7th chart which puts the Sun as ruler of the second offer/job and it looks I will accept it.