The Behenian Fixed Stars

Scion

Rosanne said:
I am thinking that maybe these 22 Cards are a celestial map cut up into individual pieces.
(snip)What I am trying to say is that Le Bateleur is a composite of that part of the Sky, indicated by the Behenian star Aldebaran/Ruby/Milk Thistle. Aid to memory for magical purposes. If you get my drift :D ~Rosanne
Indeed I do! :D

In fact what you're describing is something that Rodes and Sanchez do in great detail in their book, Libro de Fuego (Spanish book, but incredibly easy read even for non-native speakers). They literally map the TdM as sections of the fixed stars, going so far as to overlay the TdM images with the relevant constellations. I don't always agree with their reasoning, but it's intriguing nonetheless. Ditto with Daana MIndon's linked articles, which argue the case for a literal star map as the basis of the Trumps.

Melanchollic, thank you for sending me back to my Agrippa. Ironaically, I spent some time this afternoon reviewing the planetary images and the talismanic images in it, so your point resonates deeply. The Spica/Empress association may be simply too literal and too Levi influenced... it's just that in the night sky Corvus is on her right (like the eagle on the shield) and Crater on her left like the cup on the card. Logic based on constellations more than fixed stars.

Rosanne, I dug around in your planet thread to which Kwaw contributed so richly, and I wonder how some of those ideas apply here. What seven trumps would be assigned to the wanderers? Is it Rosanne's throned figures? I can't quite reconcile the idea of wandering movement to the thrones, but it is a designator that distinguishes a subset of 7 cards. And I can grok the post-Picatrix, post-Ficino idea of enthroning them. Was that a way of "fixing" stars that wielded greater power and were not intrinsically fixed?

What interests me, with regard to the Behenian Fixed Stars, is the idea that while constellations may be "grouped" as a kind of segmented map across card images... in fact the planets wander. So how do we deal with the 15 Behenians vs. the 7 planets to arrive at the 22 (or 21 +1 for that matter)? If details from constellations are on display in the trumps, then how are the Behenians and Planets to be distributed? And can it be both?... images that reference constellations that simultaneously reference these individual celestial bodies.

:) Very interested to see in what directions this can be taken.
 

Rosanne

Maybe the throned cards - like the Empress, is where you thought with the shield and cup by Spica, and as throned, indicates where the appropriate planets are seen in the sky?
Here is a bit of Celestial Map with zodiacal and Planetary figures. Virgo is flanked by Mercury and Venus. So The Empress is Virgo with the Planet Venus there in that part of the sky. The map is from Andreas Cellarius's 'Atlas Coelestis seu Harmonia Macrocosmica (1661) I cannot get the appropriate part of the map because of the book spine. ~ Rosanne
 

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kwaw

Rosanne said:
They were sometimes drawn in Almanacs as a beehive. If one was to imagine the dome of the sky as a beehive, the Stars on the list tracked in April from the highest (Polaris) to the lowest (Sirius) wind down in a spiral, looking like they ecentuate the shape of a beehive. Also Bees have a flying pattern- they go point to point in a pattern.

astrolabe1-1.jpg


The astrolabe image was generated using the Java program 'Keiths Astrolabe' here (set up for 1500 AD and to be as close as I am able to get it to the Hebrew inscribed astrolabe):

http://www.autodidacts.f2s.com/astro/index.html


Kwaw
 

Scion

It was just a lovely sight to find on my monitor this morning. The Hive of Heaven, the track of Bee-ing. LOL
 

Rosanne

I know that I am mortal and the creature of a day; but when I search out the massed wheeling circles of the stars, my feet no longer touch the earth, but, side by side with Zeus himself, I take my fill of ambrosia, the food of the gods.
Ptolemy from Almagest.
~Rosanne (To all Believers :D)
 

Rosanne

I have sketched a rough plan of the astrolabe flat with the 15 Behenian Stars, from the Highest at Polaris down to Sirius. Imagine you are directly under Polaris and you turn slowly around- so it would you be looking outwards; pretend that the planets are on the elliptic drawn.
From the top
Polaris
Capella
Algol
Deneb* Removing from here
Vega
Alphecca (Corona Borealis)
Arcturus
Ala Corvi (Corvus and Crater)
Regulus
Procyon
Aldebaran
Pleiades
Deneb algedi *Here is the right place
Antares
Spica
Sirius.
Now that is how things are Behenian Starwise. Next post is about a speculation, that is just that- a speculation of 22 Cards. ~Rosanne
 

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Rosanne

Lets say you were to give the Stars going from the top to the cards in descending order- you would get...
Polaris - XX1 La Monde
Capella - XX Le Judgement
Algol - X1X Le Soleil
Vega - XV111 La Lune
Alphecca - XV11 Les Etoile
Arcturus (Corona Borealis)- XV1 La Tour
Ala Corvi- XV Le Diable
Regulus -(Corvus and Crater)- X1V La Temperance
Procyon - X111 La Mort
Aldebaran- X11 Le Pendu
Pleiades- X1 La Force
Deneb- X La Roue
Antares- 1X L'ermite
Spica - V111 La Justice
Sirius - V11 Le Char
That leaves 0 through 6 for the Planets. I would Give Le Fou the Sun, Le Bateleur Mercury, Mars to L'Empreur, Le Pape to Jupiter, La Papesse Moon or Saturn, L'Imperatrice Moon/ Saturn, Les Amants Venus or Moon..... maybe maybe maybe.....Its those last 3- Venus- Moon- Saturn.
Fairly straight forward- what do you think?
Some things I like- The Tower at Corona Borealis; Minos's Crown thrown off to the Sky. La Roue at Pleiades as the Sun is here when the rains come and the wheel of seasons starts in Egypt. La Justice at Spica the Ear of wheat, as that is when the grain is weighed and the Sword cuts the season in half. Any imput appreciated! ~Rosanne
 

Scion

Thanks for working all that out Rosanne. It helps to be able to see it sequentially...

I wonder if perhaps it might need to go in the opposite (or a different) direction. Algol as Sun is a pretty strange match, considering the way the Arabs saw this star and the Renaissance saw the Sun. Al-Gol literally translates to The Ghoiul because of the bizarre flickering effect that unnerved so many medieval astrologers... Though I don't know that reversing it so that Hermit=Algol is any better.

Maybe your throne=planet idea figures in here?

Tomorrow I have time to pull out my books and hash through this... And I'm psyched that you're in the sandbox with me. :) Let's see what we can come up with...

Scion