Astrological Reading Methods for Pips

bernice said:

Which means that those cards can also be read to relate to 'close relationships' What do reckon?

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Well I feel like Mel nailed most of it. . .

But I'll try Bee.

So according to Mel's skyscript link, the houses of close relationships would be -

his sister: the 3rd - 6 batons, pretty bad by Mel's system, much work
his mom: the 4th - valet batons, pretty bad, notice she carries a big, heavy dry stick (guilt?) and looks away from the direction of his card, the Kn Swords, she doesn't "see" him. (well duh after her stroke she has to be reminded who everyone is.)
his children: the 5th - 3 coins, pretty good actually by Mel's system, I feel this relates hmm but he has 2 kids, son & daughter - whoa! bet the third coin is a grandkid??? must ask if he has a grandkid.
his ex-wives & girlfriends: the 7th - Strength. Remember he's the Leo here, and divorced, all these women were literally trying to "shut his mouth?" He felt like they stifled him. . .? He felt controlled? P-whipped?
his late father: the 10th - the Star. Hmm. humility, truth -- ah, he felt humbled before his father? (by EE's eye rhymes this is a falling rhyme with the other cards, we go from the querent being safely armored on horseback to falling off the horse and ending up naked on his knees, so I interp this negatively - we could get all Jodo about it and notice that our Kn querent with the big drawn, um, *sword* ends up effeminate in his relationship with his dad?). Did a macho dad mock him for being a "girly-man?"
his friends: the 11th - Kn Batons, bad card, he doesn't really trust his friends? Notice how the Kn Batons literally "looks down" on the Kn Sword, he feels like his supposed friends are combative with him and don't respect him? He has trust & respect issues? Plus this Kn is riding away from him, he feels his friends are abandoning him?

Yikes! This guy needs a new life now!

Frelkins, you reminded me of something!

Somewhere/somewhen I read that quite often Leo men don't get to see their children growing up. (Words to that effect). Strange thing that, because I happen to know a Leo man with kids from two marriages who rarely (if ever) gets to see his kids..... makes you wonder.

Ooops! in Mels system, a 3 = singular (non-divisible). He said we could tweak it though.

I feel this relates him but he has 2 kids, son & daughter - whoa! bet the third coin is a grandkid??? must ask if he has a grandchild...

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Bee

Ok we'll let Mel rule on that. But look at the card -- the vines clearly "rope off" one coin from the other two, which are bound with a little fillet. And the separate coin is enclose in a heart shape, like the first two coins "love" it.

The more interesting issue is where in this house system do we go to tell the querent how to get out of this mess and overcome a tangled emotional history? Mel??? We are definitely giving the whole "how to interp TdM minors - according to Mel's method" a spin here!

A reminder for us:

*Some Sweeping Generalizations About the Suits*

Swords - The instrument of war. Emblematic of man's aggressions and power of rule, discord, strife, hence generally speaking 'BAD'.

Batons - The instrument of agriculture and husbandry. Emblematic of labour and productivity. Not necessarily malefic, but laborious, arduous, fatiguing, hence not much fun, thus in general, 'MILDLY BAD'.

Coins - The medium of trade, security, material comforts, so 'MILDLY GOOD'.

Cups - The instrument of giving and receiving drink. Emblematic of sociability, pleasure, and the forming of bonds and alliances (holy union, marriage, etc.) 'GOOD'.

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I would have thought that Cups might cover 'healing'. Spiritual &/or otherwise...?

frelkins said:

...he has been divorced three times, has 2 children with whom he has a difficult relationship, and who was dumped by his long-term girlfriend last December.

In short, the only person who now loves him is his momma, and we've seen she's not long for this world. . . when she even remembers who he is.

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Hmmm. Now if we could only uncover why he's depressed?

Bee said:

I would have thought that Cups might cover 'healing'. Spiritual &/or otherwise...?

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I'd agree with that, with Swords showing surgery.

The statement about the mom being the only one who loves him is interesting if we go with the traditional 10th as mom. She's been his 'star' through it all.

We can twist the chart every which-a-way and if we try hard enough we could probably find out who shot JFK in there somewhere. This question is totally open-ended. I think all this brings up something important - it is perfectly okay to 'qualify' querents' questions. Indeed when exploring new methods of reading, it may be a good idea to tell the querent, "I can answer any 'yes or no' question you have." This helps insure clarity and precision in judgement, which is good for the reader, and good for the querent.


It seems like we're over analyzing this thing, and sometimes the correct answer is , "It is difficult to tell."


Keeping it simple, the querent is the Knight of Swords. This just confirms what we already know, he is in a bad way. The Knight of Swords passes to the 11th via the Knight of Batons. This may be significant. We need more feedback from the querent though. The Knight of Swords passes to the 6th. This should be significant.

This Ace of Swords in the 6th would show the depression is the result of (quoting John Frawley) "the unpleasantness the world throws at us, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" in contrast to the 12th, "self-undoing: daft things we do to make our lives more difficult than need be. Our vices; sin." I'd bet my boots this is where we should be looking. This is our elusive 'quesited'!

If we choose to consider the Ace of Swords as the quesited, we can proceed to make a clear judgement, which may be totally incorrect, but we are allowed to be wrong.

The Ace has a conjunction with the querent via the Ace of Coins. This shows a connection!! I wouldn't worry about the Ace having moved to the 12th as being suggestive that the situation has 12th house tendencies. I also wouldn't bother considering the Ace has become a Coin. The common denominator here is it is an ACE. It passes as an Ace, not as a Sword or a Coin.. 'Aceness' is what we should reflect on.

So one (more) possible interpretation, taking into consideration some of the querent's feedback:

• We know the querent is depressed (Knight of Swords).
  
  
• The depression is due to factors outside the control of the querent (Ace of Swords in 6th)
  
  
• The root of the depression is that the querent feels he has reached sixty and not fulfilled his true potentials in life (Ace). With several failed marriages, failed relationships, failure as a parent, watching his mom 'fade away', and his own aging, he feels like he's lost all the opportunities (Ace) life offered him. He feels frustrated that he can't redo anything, and as he ages, the chance of finding love and happiness seem like an overwhelming impossibility for him. This leaves him feeling empty.. helpless.. and very, very lonely. The thought of growing old alone (Ace) is terrifying for us all. Seeing what time has done to his mother makes it worst. He wonders if there will be anyone who will care enough to visit him when he is the one in the nursing home 'fading away'.

Sad

M

This poor man, we're picking him to bits, but with good intentions.

I see you got here before me Mel. But I will still post this, 'cos I've been working on it.

Been having a re-think. Initially Mel said keep it simple - focus on the principal factors.
I re-read his 'rules' and keeping strictly to the 'basics', here's what I've come up with:

1) Generalisations: No Cups: Lack of 'relationships'. Unable to relate? (for whatever reason).

2a) 1st - Querent: Leo man - Knight Swords................Agression / likes to be in control ?
2b) 6th - Quesited: Health/depression - Ace Swords.....BAD - troubled in a big way.

2c) This is an Occupation via Suits:
Positive for good health/recovery, but will entail much strife (Swords)

3) Knight Swords (querent) Passes to Knight Batons - 11th House
.11th - Groups, friendships. (Also wishes - I think?)

Without any Cups, it would seem that he 'wishes' for a wider circle of friends, and/or any
contacts he does have are related to 'working' (batons) at business/career finances or security
(2nd house of the 10th = finance, security).

4a) A Translation occurs with suit of Coins..........Security - comforts - commerce
4b) 1st adjoining...... Ace Coins.................................Material security/comfort = Looks fine
4c) 6th adjoining......3 Coins.....................................Material security/comfort = Looks O.K.

Therefore, the depression is not likely to be caused by material/money/security concerns.
Ace Coins + Querent:....Considers himself to be naterially comfortable.
3 Coins + Quesited:......Indicates that he has the means to alleviate 'material' discomfort.

Due to the lack of Cups I'm looking at the House of one-to-one relationships = 7th. This is not 'by Mels book'

7th - Strength/Fortitude: If this card is considered as a Cause that is both positive and negative regarding relationships.

Then we have = Faithful - endurance - dominating - controlling - taking charge of, or looking after.

Oddly enough, these traits are also found in Leo. (!)

Just with these 'basics' it could be said that the Querents depression is 'caused' by an inability to secure meaningful relationships (at this time of the card spread).

Recovery from the depression can be achieved, but with much difficulty.
The only help available shown in the cards, is an ability to 'buy' assistance (doctor, therapist, medication, whatever) and also 'stabilise' (he's a dashing Sword) his environment by avoiding/preventing discord (sound-proof his room(s) if noise upsets him, go on holiday somewhere quiet, avoid head-on clashes by employing someone else to handle an issue. etc).

Bee

That feedback from the querent really helped didn't it, Bee. I can see our interps. are gradually coming together into a consensus (more or less). Keep 'em coming people.


M

I missed the Ace/Ace conjunction ---- it was staring me in the face and I still missed it. Could've been whistling Dixie and I wouldn't have heard it.

But, it has made me think that conjunctions with the Querent (1st House) can only be with Houses 2 and 12. And it seems to me that it's just 'not on' to read those House meanings into a querent-conjunction. Perhaps it should be considered as if two cards were in the 1st House.

OK fellow excavators, over to you.

Bee

Moderator Note

This thread has been split from Interpreting Minors in Marseilles Decks. Please refer to Melanchollic's posts for an explanation of the method used by frelkins.

Another try at M's Astrological Reading Method

Okay, I was not following the other thread at all. I was too lost. So the only way to figure this out is to do it myself. LOL and now I'm confused and lost anyways! So all of you jump in here and help me get unconfused!

I don't know how to post those nifty pictures so the layout is here: http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii23/BBwolfie/Tarot/Tarot1.jpg


The cards in the houses are as follows:

1. V Deniers 2. Le Diable 3. Cavalier de Coupe
4. Ace Deniers 5. IIII Deniers 6. III Coupe
7. Roy de Baton 8. VII Deniers 9. La Papesse
10. Valet de Deniers 11. VIIII Coupe 12. IIII Baton

The question: Is A. doomed to repeat her past?

So. .What I think I have figure out so far.

The querent is the V Deniers (of course.) I think the quesited is in House 12 the IIII Batons because this is fear based. Not too sure though.

There is a lot of passing in this. The V Deniers passes to house 4,5,8, and 10. In house 4, we have the Ace of Deniers. I believe this is about her basic teachings or beliefs from her parents. In house 5, we have IIII Deniers which I think is four pregnancies. In house 8, we have the VII Deniers and I have no clue here. In house 10 we have the Valet of Deniers and I believe this is about a lowered status. A misconception of that status by herself and possibly by others.

Then the IIII Batons passes to the Roy de Baton in house 7 (assuming I have the right house for the quesited that is.) I think this is about her having a past relationship in which she was controlled and owned. Believe it or not, the phrase pimp status popped in my head!

I also noted there are no swords at all in this spread. I am leaning towards this being a reactionary subject instead of thought put into the actions.

Okay, that is as far as I got. I have no freaking clue what the heck the IIII Batons means. I'm stumped as to the rest of this and how to get further.

Hooked