Tarot development- Mhchelino, Mantegna, Sola Busca, Minchiate?

Huck

mjhurst said:
Ludus Triumphorum
http://ludustriumphorum.blogspot.com/

I'm posting on this today because Ross has just posted about another early (c.1450) invention of trumping. This appears to be a previously overlooked reference. Like Boiardo (before Viti turned Boiardo's deck into a game) this is apparently a literary "game", another kind of appropriation of the structure of the deck. In it, an Emperor card is described which "wins over all the other cards" -- Emperador que gane a todas las otras cartas. This literary usage provides "a poetic interpretation of the Spanish (Castillian) 48 card pack, dedicated to the Countess of Castañeda", which is unique in its specifics and yet which has parallels in other interpretative commentaries. It also included a unique set of associations with the four suit signs.

Grandious finding ... indeed, the poetical structure reminds the Boiardo Tarocchi poem.

It also reminds us, that just around this time (ca. 1450) a game called "Imperatori" is used in Ferrara and a game of similar name is used in Germany (- possibly also with 48 cards and possibly also known with a second name, that is Karnoeffel).

Ross G Caldwell

mjhurst said:
I'm posting on this today because Ross has just posted about another early (c.1450) invention of trumping. This appears to be a previously overlooked reference. Like Boiardo (before Viti turned Boiardo's deck into a game) this is apparently a literary "game", another kind of appropriation of the structure of the deck. In it, an Emperor card is described which "wins over all the other cards" -- Emperador que gane a todas las otras cartas. This literary usage provides "a poetic interpretation of the Spanish (Castillian) 48 card pack, dedicated to the Countess of Castañeda", which is unique in its specifics and yet which has parallels in other interpretative commentaries. It also included a unique set of associations with the four suit signs.

Check it out. (Also, anyone who is fluent in Spanish might want to give Ross some comments on the text.)

Thanks for the shout out Michael. Glad to see you posting!

Fernando de la Torre's Juego de naypes really is an "undiscovered" text - at least for playing card historians besides Jean-Pierre Etienvre.

I hope some ambitious Spanish reader/speaker who wants to tackle a 15th century text will be intrigued.

Ross

Ross G Caldwell

Huck said:
Grandious finding ... indeed, the poetical structure reminds the Boiardo Tarocchi poem.

It also reminds us, that just around this time (ca. 1450) a game called "Imperatori" is used in Ferrara and a game of similar name is used in Germany (- possibly also with 48 cards and possibly also known with a second name, that is Karnoeffel).

I had the same thought about Imperatori, but it would take awhile to write out the speculative possibilities of connection.

I hadn't remembered the Karnöffel being 48 cards though.

We need a couple of things first - Fernando de la Torre's biography, and a translation of the "rules" he writes. Etienvre posits that the influence on de la Torre's symbolic choices for the colours of the classes of women was d'Enghien's book, and he adds that d'Enghien was Alfonso V's herald.

The original manuscript with de la Torre's poem included (along with 38 other poets) was compiled in 1460-1463 in Naples, so there is a rich substratum to work with here.
(see http://www.spanisharts.com/books/literature/cancionero.htm
number 14, exactly halfway down the page)

Ross G Caldwell

The whole manuscript of this text is available at the Biblioteca Nacional de España -
http://tinyurl.com/d92svn
or if that doesn't work -
http://bibliotecadigitalhispanica.b...h_terms=&adjacency=&usePid1=true&usePid2=true

I just don't know which folios it's on yet. I'll update this when I find out.

"We're not worthy! We're not worthy!" We really aren't. The riches are just out there, and they grow by the hour.

Huck

Ross G Caldwell said:
I had the same thought about Imperatori, but it would take awhile to write out the speculative possibilities of connection.

I hadn't thought of the Karnöffel being 48 cards originally though.

We need a couple of things first - Fernando de la Torre's biography, and a translation of the "rules" he writes. Etienvre posits that the influence on de la Torre's symbolic choices for the colours of the classes of women was d'Enghien's book, and he adds that d'Enghien was Alfonso V's herald.

The original manuscript with de la Torre's poem included (along with 38 other poets) was compiled in 1460-1463 in Naples, so there is a rich substratum to work with here.
(see http://www.spanisharts.com/books/literature/cancionero.htm
number 14, exactly halfway down the page)

...

... well, the riddle looks easy ... the later pope Enea Piccolimini as most important man between church and emperor arranged the marriage between Eleanor of Portugal and Emperor Friedrich III (took place in early 1452 at the stations Siena - Rome - Naples) ... the mediator on the other (Spanish/Portuguese) side was Alfonso of Aragon, reigning in Naples, but also rather influential at the Iberian peninsula.
This all happened in the preparation before winter/spring 1451/1452, as such important weddings needed a lot of preparation ... "ca. 1450" fits the correct time, the later manuscript production fits the right location (Naples).

Remember: We've only one Trionfi card production note in Siena in 15th century and this is just from 1452 ... probably not accidently.

And also it doesn't look accidently, that this production contains a special Emperor card. What had medieval German Emperors in common with kings in Spain, may it be from Aragon, Kastilien or Navarra?
With the exception of Alfons the Wise (who nearly became German emperor in the period of German Emperor problems 1250 - 1272) usually not too much. It's too far away. This changed with Fredrick III. and the Spanish-Habsburgian "marriages in consequence" (grandchildren of Fredrick III.), which later lead to the rather large kingdom of emperor Charles V.

So it's a poem in political context. Probably a lot of poets tried to do something, which pleased the public attention during the wedding time and surely not all reached the goal.

************

German decks had for some time (usually ... but in no way always) 48 cards only, skipping the ace with the 2 as the lowest card. So we have trump 2-3-4-5 for the "4 emperors", the 6 for the pope and the 7 for the devil and the Karnöffel can't be beaten ... just as the emperor card in this Spanish poem.
But it's difficult to determine, when the 48-cards system became dominant. The nowadays most common card deck is from 7-10, Jack, Queen, King and Ace only, 32 cards. Decks with 52 cards are used also, but the games played with it mostly have a foreign origin.

Huck

http://books.google.com/books?id=ra...ndo+torre&ei=TN--SZKFG5XQzAT0woCcBQ#PPA203,M1

In the life of bishop Cartagena appear a few names ... Decembrio, Enea Piccolomini and the poet Fernando de la Torre, who "fought and had been" also in Italy, even Pero Dafur.

Cartagena was a converso and Fernando de la Torre and a brother (or possible brother) Alfonso (another writer) are suspected to have been also conversos. Alfonsis suspected to have been influenced by the Kabbala and Maimonides.

Cartagena had the see in Burgos (1435 - 1456), where Fernando de la Torre came from.

Cartagena was influential on Pope Eugen, who was against card playing (but in ca. 1450 Eugen was dead ... and Cartagena was used to have contact with the nobility).

Cartagena had early several diplomatic missions at the Portuguese court.

Ross G Caldwell

Huck said:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ra...ndo+torre&ei=TN--SZKFG5XQzAT0woCcBQ#PPA203,M1

In the life of bishop Cartagena appear a few names ... Decembrio, Enea Piccolomini and the poet Fernando de la Torre, who "fought and had been" also in Italy, even Pero Dafur.

Cartagena was a converso and Fernando de la Torre and a brother (or possible brother) Alfonso (another writer) are suspected to have been also conversos. Alfonsis suspected to have been influenced by the Kabbala and Maimonides.

Cartagena had the see in Burgos (1435 - 1456), where Fernando de la Torre came from.

Cartagena was influential on Pope Eugen, who was against card playing (but in ca. 1450 Eugen was dead ... and Cartagena was used to have contact with the nobility).

Cartagena had early several diplomatic missions at the Portuguese court.

This is all very interesting. I have nothing new to add this morning, but will if I find out anything.

I'd like to have Nancy F. Marino's article on the poem, and a translation, first.

(it isn't impossible for me, but I would struggle for hours over what someone else could do in a few minutes)

Ross G Caldwell

For instance -

JUEGO DE NAYPES

QUE COMPUSO FERNANDO DE LA TORRE EL DE BÚRGOS,
DIRIGIDO Á LA MUY NOBLE SENNORA CONDESA DE
CASTANNEDA.

El emboltorio de los naypes ha de ser en esta
manera. Una piel de pargamino del gran-
dor de un pliego de papel en el qual uaya
escripto lo seguiente, é las espaldas del
dicho emboltorio de la color de las
espaldas de los dichos naypes.

MAGNIFICENCIA Y VIRTUD.

"Game of Cards

Which Fernando de la Torre, the one from Burgos, composed, dedicated to the most noble Lady Condesa de Castañeda.

The pack(age) of the cards should be made in this way. A sheet (skin) of parchment of the size of a sheet of paper on which will be written the following, and the backs of said pack(age) with the colours of the said cards.

MAGNIFICENCE AND VIRTUE"

So the box/package of the cards is coloured with the colours of the four suits, and has those two words written on it.

Ross

Ross G Caldwell

Here is what seems to be the crucial passage for understanding the rules of play -

E pueden iugar con ellos perseguera ó tríntin assy como en otros naypes, y de más pueden se conosçer quáles son meiores amores sin haber respecto á lo que puede contesçer. Porque á las veces es meior el carnero que la gallina, et pueden conosçer su calidat, y puédense echar suertes en ellos á quién más ama cada uno, e á quién quiere más, et por otras muchas et diversas maneras.

The orthography is old, and words like "trintin" can't be found. I can get no meaning out of a sentence like "Because a ram is better for the times than a hen, and can know its quality, and can draw lots in them for everyone she loves, and from whom she wants more, and in many other diverse ways."

Ross

Huck

A biography of Fernando de la Torre (especially his journeys and "fights") would be helpful, also the identity of the comtessa ... perhaps he accompanied Cartagena, perhaps he was involved in the Naples-story 1442.

We've to reflect, that the Spanish interests in Italy made a big jump with Alfonso's success in Naples. And the pope in 1455 already was Spanish, later followed by Borgia.

I wonder, if Angelo Decembrio's (who wrote about the discussions between Leonello-Guarino-Alberti-Tito Vespasiano Strozzi) journey to Spain (Saragossa) in 1450 has anything to do with it.

Strozzi is Boiardo's uncle ... !!!!!

Strozzi (* 1424) is rather young in 1450 ... can we assume, that Angelo Decembrio (* 1418) was befriended closely with him ? Strozzi's appearance beside Leonello - Guarino - Alberti would otherwise be a surprize.

Angelo's journey (actually a flight) in 1450 surely has something to do with the fear of danger by Sforza's victory in Milan, the elder brother Pier Candid Decembrio had engaged for the Ambrosian republic - it was not predictable, how Sforza would behave. It's told, that Angelo was back in Ferrara in in October 1450, when Leonello died.

The distance Saragossa-Burgos are 315 km ... that's not far. Cartagena probably had been in Ferrara (?) during the council ... Angelo should have had opportunity to meet him. In the case, that Fernando de la Torre accompanied Cartagena, then there was opportunity for a meeting between young poet Angelo and young poet Fernando (* 1416) and perhaps even the younger poet Tito Vespasiano Strozzi was between them.

Well ... still I desire to see something more of this text of Angelo Decembrio about the Ferrarese talkings. Ah, lucky life and thanks to books.google.com ......
http://books.google.com/books?id=H49KIQyId0IC
...

..well, mostly everything in Latin, but I can decipher from the German prolog ...

Feltrino Boiardo (presents a stormy person according description))
Alberto Costabili / Alberto da Carpi with love to Livius)
Tito Strozzi (loves Dante)
Giovanni Gualengo (with wisdom)
Mapheus Vegius (= Maffeo Vegio)
Aretino (= Leonardo Bruni)
Pogius (= Poggio)
Francesco Venerio (Venetian diplomat)
(diplomats of Florence)
Giovanni Pietrasanti (fugitive from Milan, dies)

funny accidently visitors:
Minorit Agostino
Actor Ugolino da Parma
Techer Palamedes
Messenger of Pope Eugen

....
....

But the similarity between Boiardo text and Torre poem gets with the Angelo-Decembrio-journey precisely at the right time (1450) a logical face.