Mixed feelings about the Thoth

dancing_moon

I'd like some help from the many Thoth enthusiasts here. My concern might be silly, so please bear with me. :rolleyes:

I've been circling around the Thoth for a long time, and have always found the art... discouraging, to say the least. However, at some point I accidentally took a closer look at a couple of Minors - and fell in love. :bugeyed: Looking through available scans proved to me that the Minors are indeed stunning - some of the best I've ever seen - but the Majors and Courts keep giving me the sinking feeling of disappointment. :(

Now, I'm sure I'll be getting this deck some time soon, even if it's only for the gorgeous Minors and the system behind the deck. What I'm looking for in this thread is, perhaps, some 'enabling' as far as the Majors and Courts are concerned. Am I missing something, and there's beauty in them that I somehow keep overlooking? Does it even matter to any long-time Thoth users, and getting used to the images and/or understanding their esoteric meaningfulness makes artistic appreciation redundant? Is there any secret, or is it the same as with any art, and you either 'dig' it or not?

I'll appreciate your thoughts and experiences. :)
 

Barleywine

I've been using the Thoth for 40+ years, and I see what you're saying. The art in the Minor Arcana I find extremely evocative of the ideas they represent. The Courts and Majors are a mixed bag, and an acquired taste. I really like some of them: the Chariot, the "dancing" Death, the Wheel of Fortune, the Aeon (for its subtlety), the Moon (for its sense of madness), the Tower (for its ferocity), the Hermit (for its "ricocheting" light). Others - although stuffed full of symbolism - are decidedly "meh" artistically: the Sun, the Emperor, the Hanged Man, the Priestess. The rest are OK, but you need to spend some time with them to get to that appraisal. The Courts are similar: I think the Disks are really strong, the Cups are OK, the rest are kind of "hit-or-miss." I have an art school education - graphic design - so I can appreciate them for their design elements even if the style doesn't move me all that much.
 

Richard

I can't use a deck unless I understand (or at least have the delusion that I understand) the imagery. The symbolism of the images in the Thoth, especially the Majors and Courts, can be elusive since they incorporate esoteric, mythological, and philosophical concepts which are often unique to the deck's author. Apparently, it is possible to 'read' the Thoth simply by looking at the images and imagining (intuiting?) meanings, but I am constitutionally unable to do this. If you want to use the Thoth, you will need to find a way to 'understand' it which you find personally satisfying.
 

Miss Woo

I'm thinking of taking up Thoth Tarot again but I'm not really into the artwork either. It's so harsh and masculine and dark and foreboding looking.
 

Barleywine

It looked to me like the OP was asking whether understanding the esoteric symbolism would serve as an inspiration or a valuable key to make the seemingly underwhelming artwork seem more approachable and palatable. I didn't think we were debating whether an enhusiastic appreciation of the artwork in and of itself is the sine qua non of reading with the Thoth. So I focused on my impressions of the artwork independent of the symbolism. I don't disagree with you but I think it was a bit beside the point.
 

Miss Woo

Oh sorry, I wasn't being clear. I was replying to dancing_moon and I should have quoted her :)

I'm interested in this thread because I have the same concerns... I like the Thoth system but the artwork doesn't do it for me. I think her question is a good one about finding out how to inspire oneself to read with the Thoth :)
 

Chrystella

For years, I disliked the Thoth. I would look at it and go, "Ugh, whatevah," and move along, usually back to my beloved RWS. It didn't help that I wasn't a fan of Crowley. One day, I looked at it again and suddenly I loved it. By then, I had learned a lot more about tarot and its development and I guess I was just ready for Thoth. I do think the art is beautiful, but my appreciation of it is enhanced by my increasing knowledge of it as well as a greater regard (not necessarily a like) for Crowley. Like LRichard, the Thoth is not an especially intuitive deck for me. It's a deck I actively study and the more I get to know it, the more satisfying I find it.
 

Barleywine

Oh sorry, I wasn't being clear. I was replying to dancing_moon and I should have quoted her :)

I'm interested in this thread because I have the same concerns... I like the Thoth system but the artwork doesn't do it for me. I think her question is a good one about finding out how to inspire oneself to read with the Thoth :)

And I was responding to LRichard, and I should have quoted him! :)
 

Nemia

The art is neither cute nor pretty - which makes it better in my book. Innovative artists usually make neither cute nor pretty art but push the visual boundaries.

There is no eye contact with the figures in the deck, no invitation. The cards really tell you to go and learn what all these symbols mean - intuition can only get you so far with the Thoth.

A point in case is the colours. We are used to expressive use of colours and indeed Harris uses very expressive colours. But at the time, she follows (mostly) the colour scales of the Golden Dawn which are based on light symbolism, not on the expressive value of colours. So there is always an intellectual challenge, you don't get anything "for free", and wherever you dig, you find a whole treasure (or load) of complex ideas.

This makes the Thoth for me the best deck I ever saw. Like a very complex person who is not always nice or friendly but an eternal source of wisdom, inspiration and uncompromising honesty.

The court cards, especially Swords, are difficult. Knowledge about the elements helps. They always remind me of an exercise my mother had to do as an art student: paint frozen fire. She struggled with it for a long time - how do you paint frozen fire? And how to you paint the fire of the air? What does that mean, how does it translate to a card that may mean your friend or colleague or your own reaction to a situation or character trait? Encourage your own free associations of the elementary combinations. How do you see them combine? What happens when fire and earth meet?

It's not easy. Lay out the court cards according to elements and try to see how Harris expresses each of them - compare air of fire with fire of air. Think also about astrological signs - a Capricorn woman or Gemini man, where do you find them?

Reading a lot with the cards really helps.

I find that some of the Thoth cards are so beautiful they leave me speechless - Ace/ Disks, 4/Wands, I love them.

But if you study and practice and still don't feel the pull, well, maybe they're not for you.

Oh another thing: I can recommend Polyphonic's Youtube channel. Wonderful explanations with lots of enthusiasm (even if he sometimes mixes up the planetary associations or uses a tradition I don't know and which confuses me).