Numerology for the pips

Bernice

Mel: I have some reservations about how much of 20th century psychology has actually expanded the rational understanding of the human mind. Certainly some progress has been made, but, in my opinion, a good chuck of it has merely been an attempt to rationalize certain 19th/20th century social ideologies.
SNAP!

Thanks for your Element posting Mel.

Bee :)
 

frelkins

Melanchollic said:
Mmmm. Feisty!! Just the way I like 'em! }) Or as Granny Fulton use to say,


granny-fulton.jpg
[size=+2]"Don't never bother 'carrin' on' with any gal who can't spit like a feller!"[/size]

Since I work on Wall St., Mel, I can indeed spit 'n swear with the best of them, altho' I really prefer a lady-like cheese & Prosecco. . .



Melanchollic said:
Actually the 'crazy' formula is:

Batons - Earth - 4, 10
Coins - Water - 2, 6, 8
Cups - Air - 3, 5, 9
Swords - Fire - 1, 7

Thanks for the correction Mel, I really shouldn't type so late at night. . .
Melanchollic said:
Are you flirtin'? :love:

Just now noticing, are you, Mel? :love:


Melanchollic said:
Welp. I think I'd better see how well ya spit before I share my thoughts on that! Being this is the 'Numerology for the Pips' thread, and all. :* (Or, better yet, you could suss out your own version.
And my own version, Mel, for trumps would be to just divide the year up by 21 and give each trump a time period of 17-1/2 days! Which leaves me the Fool for leap year, aka Sadie Hawkins Day. :D
 

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
Since I work on Wall St., Mel, I can indeed spit 'n swear with the best of them, altho' I really prefer a lady-like cheese & Prosecco.

Wall Street? You're not the one causing all that trouble are you?






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"Let nature be thy guide"
 

frelkins

Tirage Timing Example

Ok, so now that Mel has told us:

Batons - Earth - 4, 10
Coins - Water - 2, 6, 8
Cups - Air - 3, 5, 9
Swords - Fire - 1, 7

I will elaborate by adding:

Batons - Earth - 4, 10, Valet
Coins - Water - 2, 6, 8, Reyne
Cups - Air - 3, 5, 9, Roy
Swords - Fire - 1, 7, Chevalier

Mel can pick this apart if he likes. :love:

So let's get to the example, one of his wacky Tirages. And because Mel just LOVES the Relationship Question, the one I got today in dance class was again, "Will we live together?"

--------Moon---------
Sun-----------Chariot
--------Wheel--------

Y'all can run over to Mel's Tirage thread in the Spreads forums if you don't remember how to do this one. The upshot is that my little friend is going to be happy! Yes, there is an above-average chance she will connive her way into his apartment. . . ;) but seriously, she loves him, and the tarot gives her a +1 chance (hey I used the Noblet, which is famously no B.S.), which is more than most chicks get. So! She might get to live her dream.

Naturally the next question she asks is "When?" For this, I pull a minor, since I haven't yet divvied up the weeks among the Trumps yet (the question there will be, when to start? With New Years? The Spring Equinox?). And our little lady get every girl's fave card, the Q of Cups. Because every woman wants to be HIS Q Cup.

Now by Mel's method above, Q is water, Cup is air, in air/water sich-y-a-shuns, the time is Feb./March. Q is Monday or Friday, so. . .probably a late Friday or Monday they'll be snuggling by a nice fire on one of those coldish March nights and. . .he'll ask her. . .to come pick up his socks. Hooray! True love triumphs! :)
 

Melanchollic

The symbolism of the Moon and Wheel (being 'hidden' influences and long term effects) is suggestive of constant cyclical change.





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"Let nature be thy guide"
 

frelkins

Ok Mel, what month is Air/Earth? Jes' Checking. ;)
 

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
Ok Mel, what month is Air/Earth? Jes' Checking. ;)


Any combination of the opposite elements, say Air+Earth, or Fire+Water, result in a situation where all four powers (cold, hot, dry, wet) are present.

When this occurs with 'good' suits (Cups, Coins) it shows a situation were a balance of opposites has been achieved. With 'bad' suits, it shows a situation were oppositions can not be reconciled.





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"Let nature be thy guide"
 

frelkins

Melanchollic said:
When this occurs with 'good' suits (Cups, Coins) it shows a situation were a balance of opposites has been achieved. With 'bad' suits, it shows a situation were oppositions can not be reconciled.

That's fantastic Mel, but I'm just trying to follow out your timing rules. What month, please? And of course, the Trumps. Sigh. Struggling to understand your system. . .in detail. ;)
 

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
That's fantastic Mel, but I'm just trying to follow out your timing rules. What month, please? And of course, the Trumps. Sigh. Struggling to understand your system. . .in detail. ;)


In detail? Well, you'll have to wait for the book for that!

;)





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"Let nature be thy guide"
 

SolSionnach

Melanchollic said:
Excerpts from Henry Cornelius Agrippa's Second Book of Occult Philosophy, chapter 21:
.....
So to summarize just the planets mentioned by Agrippa, emphasizing the first planet mentioned:

1 = Sun, Jupiter
2 = Moon, Saturn, Mars
3 = Jupiter, Sun, Venus
4 = Sun
5 = Mercury
6 = Venus
7 = Saturn, Moon
8 = Jupiter, Saturn
9 = Moon, Mars
10 = Sun

In applying these to the Loop Model, I make a few changes, but try to favor the emphasized planets. I tried to streamline Agrippa a bit, to make these planetary considerations even more practical and useful than they already are for the average card reader out there.

As both 4 and 7 occupy the same point on the model, I give them both to Saturn, with the Sun co-ruling the 4, and the Moon co-ruling the 7. For the 9, I give it firstly to Mars, with co-rulership from the Moon. For the 2, I give it firstly to the Moon, with co-rulership from Mars, and lesser so from Saturn. For the 3 and 8, I give them squarely to Jupiter. For the 1 and 10, squarely to the Sun.

So we have something like this:

1.........10 > Sun
2.........(9) > Moon/Mars, (Mars/Moon)
3..........8 > Jupiter
4........(7) > Saturn/Sun, (Saturn/Moon)
5........(6) > Mercury, (Venus)

or,

loopmodel-planets.jpg

Okay, so I've been looking at this today (let's just say that my symphony rehearsal was BOOOOORing), and finding myself full o' questions.

If I add the elements to what you've posted above, I get this:

1 (fire/choleric/Sun).........10 (earth/melancholic/Sun)
2 (water/phlegmatic/Moon/Mars).........9 (air/sanguine/Mars/Moon)
3 (air/sanguine/Jupiter)..........8 (water/phlegmatic/Jupiter)
4 (earth/melancholic/Saturn/Sun)........7 (fire/choleric/Saturn/Moon)
5 (air/sanguine/Mercury)........6 (water/phlegmatic/Venus)

I quite enjoy the symmetry of your model (that diagram is awesome), but I don't see some of the elemental/planetary correspondences, particularly when I equate the elements to the humors.

To start at the top -

1 (fire/choleric/Sun).........10 (earth/melancholic/Sun)
Okay, 1 makes sense. But 10 as earth/melancholic/SUN?? I'm not getting that as a correspondence of the Sun with earth. I would read it as Saturn (melancholic + the end of the matter... you've gone as far from the Sun as you can, time to turn around and go back..) If you've read venicebard around here, he (she?) says that the Sun is AIR/Sanguine in esoteric circles. In Vedic the Sun is a malefic, fiery, burning god, fwiw.

Some keywords from my notes
1: "by which", Impulse, the Divine - Aries
10: the Divine, Consolidation, 'the completion of this action', reason and calm - Aquarius

2 (water/phlegmatic/Moon/Mars).........9 (air/sanguine/Mars/Moon)
Seeing the 2 & 9 as basically malefic works for me (2 of Cups, anyone?), but I see Mars as a choleric, fiery planet. Definitely not the happy sanguinity of air, though the inconstancy of air works for Mars (vs. the long-acting fiery Sun)

Keywords, 2: 'from which', separation, gestation, without effect, crisis of separation, differentiation - Cancer
9: 'process of this action', falls short of perfection, 'near perfect, limitation, failure', crisis of separation, new action, starts new cycle (after the 8) - Scorpio

3 (air/sanguine/Jupiter)..........8 (water/phlegmatic/Jupiter)
Air/sanguine/Jupiter (3) vs. water/phlegmatic/Jupiter (8) I can see, if I look at the first as Sagittarius, and the second as Pisces. However, I don't see Jupiter/Pisces as fitting with the double-cubedness of the 8 as four 4s. (ETA: "embracer of all harmonies? Pisces!)

Keywords 3: 'by means of which', completion, the means, gives direction, introduces activity - Sagittarius
8: 'the action of this end object, separation, 'embracer of all harmonies', safety, the means, stability, marks an ending/stasis - Pisces

4 (earth/melancholic/Saturn/Sun)........7 (fire/choleric/Saturn/Moon)
My next big problem is 7/fire/choleric/SATURN/MOON. That is a big disconnect with me. Saturn is cold and dry/melancholic, right? moon is cold/moist = water/phlegmatic??

Keywords, 4: 'with what end; consolidation, pt. farthest from the Divine, things that fall into place - Capricorn
7: 'the impulse towards this end', easily missed opportunity, completion with success, action that utilises power contained in 6, pt. farthest from Divine - Leo??

5 (air/sanguine/Mercury)........6 (water/phlegmatic/Venus)
Now, I suppose I could live with Venus as phlegmatic (especially as ruling Taurus), where she's luxurious and sensual (vs. Libra and more airy/sanguine)

Keywords, 5: 'the intention for this end' transition, marriage number - Libra?
6:'the purpose of this end', harmonious balance, latent power/potential, reserves which can be drawn from, marriage number - Taurus?

Of course, that leaves out my sign, Virgo, and it's opposite, Gemini. And I know that seeing the signs that way doesn't jive with the ancients - come to think of it, perhaps I should find a way to stick Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto in there and be done with it! :bugeyed: :eek: :) :p