Melanchollic
1. God, by which
2. is taken a lump of mud, from which
3. he forms a man
4. called Fred..
(or was it Adam?)
2. is taken a lump of mud, from which
3. he forms a man
4. called Fred..
(or was it Adam?)
Numerology for the pips
venicebard
(Sorry: don't know how it got duplicated by a mere edit.)
venicebard
Melanchollic:
I find your diagram interesting, in that the fundamental key to all esoterica is (as I see things) the round with another round half its height within it (to which it 'gives birth'). But I place the numbers somewhat differently upon it: the tradition in early Kabbalah that the ten Sefirot progress from (Hebrew) ain, 'naught', to ani, 'I', shows that they regarded numbers 1-10 to occupy the first ten of the twelve signs of the zodiac (which with the return to the first make the 13 middot or divine attributes). This is because starting with 1 signifying the divine, the exalted -- aries the head, meaning the direction up (that in which spring springs) -- the tenth, then, points straight back; and if straight ahead is towards other, then straight back is back towards self. It is clear that 1 means the 1 totality ('naught' in that the individual has yet to differentiate itself from it, which is what the Sefirot do), and 10 means the individual ten-fingered.
The relation between the above and the elements is this. I take the elements in essence to be: fire, purely active; air, active-passive; water, passive-active; and earth, purely passive. In the actual round (prior to its manipulation in astrology, whose rationale is a bit complex), the first four triads represent the four elements in natural order, since they are determined, respectively, by the first sign being straight up (vertical), the second up-and-a-bit-out, the third out-and-a-bit-up, and the fourth straight out (horizontal). Each triad, then, manifests in manifested nature (from horizon without to straight down) in the element following, based on the circumference: at cancer, earth's (triad) manifests in fire, for the circumference there is vertical; at leo, fire's manifests in air, for the circumference there is more vertical than horizontal; and so on.
[Briefly to explain the astrological manipulation of this more primordial arrangement, the lower three cardinal signs' elements have been rotated back one (earth to capricorn, air to libra, and water to cancer) to allow the rotation of the wheel in its lower half to tend to right them, the rotation back being a representation of the fallen human state which time exists to correct.]
Just thought I'd throw this out there for your possible consideration. I will admit that though I consider myself Pythagorean in that to me number is the key (along with geometry, its sister), what has survived of Pythagoras's teachings does not always make complete sense to me. (This does not mean it is not worthy of study, though, don't get me wrong.)
I find your diagram interesting, in that the fundamental key to all esoterica is (as I see things) the round with another round half its height within it (to which it 'gives birth'). But I place the numbers somewhat differently upon it: the tradition in early Kabbalah that the ten Sefirot progress from (Hebrew) ain, 'naught', to ani, 'I', shows that they regarded numbers 1-10 to occupy the first ten of the twelve signs of the zodiac (which with the return to the first make the 13 middot or divine attributes). This is because starting with 1 signifying the divine, the exalted -- aries the head, meaning the direction up (that in which spring springs) -- the tenth, then, points straight back; and if straight ahead is towards other, then straight back is back towards self. It is clear that 1 means the 1 totality ('naught' in that the individual has yet to differentiate itself from it, which is what the Sefirot do), and 10 means the individual ten-fingered.
The relation between the above and the elements is this. I take the elements in essence to be: fire, purely active; air, active-passive; water, passive-active; and earth, purely passive. In the actual round (prior to its manipulation in astrology, whose rationale is a bit complex), the first four triads represent the four elements in natural order, since they are determined, respectively, by the first sign being straight up (vertical), the second up-and-a-bit-out, the third out-and-a-bit-up, and the fourth straight out (horizontal). Each triad, then, manifests in manifested nature (from horizon without to straight down) in the element following, based on the circumference: at cancer, earth's (triad) manifests in fire, for the circumference there is vertical; at leo, fire's manifests in air, for the circumference there is more vertical than horizontal; and so on.
[Briefly to explain the astrological manipulation of this more primordial arrangement, the lower three cardinal signs' elements have been rotated back one (earth to capricorn, air to libra, and water to cancer) to allow the rotation of the wheel in its lower half to tend to right them, the rotation back being a representation of the fallen human state which time exists to correct.]
Just thought I'd throw this out there for your possible consideration. I will admit that though I consider myself Pythagorean in that to me number is the key (along with geometry, its sister), what has survived of Pythagoras's teachings does not always make complete sense to me. (This does not mean it is not worthy of study, though, don't get me wrong.)
frelkins
sravana said:Perhaps I'm dense, but I don't see how this is useful, frelkins. Can you give an example of how this is useful for *this* blonde??
Ok, beautiful, once I get Mel to cop to a list, I'll do a 3-card reading or even one of his tirages with it. The first thing is to make clear/understand what Mel is saying and then to make him bite his own bullet.
After reading your recent list-posts several times Mel, here's my bullet points. Feel free to amend. I'm willing to take the risk and be wrong so that we all can learn. Here goes, we have to move on from Mel's beginning with the Aristotelian causes:
1. # 'the by which'
2. # 'the from which'
3. # 'the by means of which
4. # 'the with what end'
5. # "the intention for this end"
6. # "the purpose of this end"
7. # "the impulse towards this end"
8. # "the action of this end object"
9. # "the process of this action"
10. # "the completion of this action"
Note that from 5&6 on we alternate, um, how to say? "psychological" with "material." Impulses are what you feel; actions are what you manifest in the world, make real.
Go for it Mel, I double-dawg dare ya.
Melanchollic
Mmmmmm. Double Dawg Dare!
What do I get if I accommodate you?
Keep in mind, I was only quoting The Theology of Arithmetic on that there list.
The ToA is the largest and most important record we have of actual pagan (Platonic/Pythagorean) number mysticism before it was 'diluted' by the Church. Meaning, the Church appropriated the concepts of Pythagorean number mysticism, yet alway in reference to the Judeo-Christian number symbolism found in scripture.
The work itself is a hodge-podge really, with fragments from various sources. It is all thrown together in a very unorganized way, so it is a difficult text to plow through, yet always rewarding.
frelkins, your list looks workable. The fine tuning of these things, of course, is where the real insights pop-up.
I'll try to clarifiy some of my personal interpretations as the Adventures of the Loop Model continue.
More after gym, shower, and finishing off the left-over Strip Steak with Rosemary-Bourbon Sauce.
What do I get if I accommodate you?
Keep in mind, I was only quoting The Theology of Arithmetic on that there list.
The ToA is the largest and most important record we have of actual pagan (Platonic/Pythagorean) number mysticism before it was 'diluted' by the Church. Meaning, the Church appropriated the concepts of Pythagorean number mysticism, yet alway in reference to the Judeo-Christian number symbolism found in scripture.
The work itself is a hodge-podge really, with fragments from various sources. It is all thrown together in a very unorganized way, so it is a difficult text to plow through, yet always rewarding.
frelkins, your list looks workable. The fine tuning of these things, of course, is where the real insights pop-up.
I'll try to clarifiy some of my personal interpretations as the Adventures of the Loop Model continue.
More after gym, shower, and finishing off the left-over Strip Steak with Rosemary-Bourbon Sauce.
frelkins
how the blondes do it
So to pick up an older question from Mel, no i never get bored with the relationship question! Me all Blonde, I live the Relationship Question.
So let's take the Relationship Question: "How does he feel about me now?" For brevity's sake let's do 3 cards, and to address Sravana, let's apply the list.
Noblet TdM:
Ok, let's agree the Q is our querent. She looks a little anxious, her brow is furrowed and she has a slight frown as she stares at the big giant sword in her lap.
Jodo in his Art of Tarot describes this lady as "quick witted" and notes that "she keeps her sword in her lap and in her sight, aware of her own strength & power." Ok, c'mon, we know what's on this lady's mind in the context of this question!
Then comes the big giant Ace Baton. Well, I guess that's the him of this question, and as we're trying to keep this a family website, let's just say they are both clearly interested in the same thing. We know what kind of relationship they are pursuing here, ahem. Jodo simply keywords this as "creation, domination, sex."
In Mel's list this, the A is the 1, the "by which" she will learn how he feels for her. Could the tarot be more direct? I think not! Well, that seems real self-explanatory. I suggest she not worry about the fancy lingerie as I don't think it'll stay on her long enough for him to notice. . .
The next card is the 3 Coins. In Mel's list, the 3 is the "by means of which," and coins are the suit of safety, physicality, health, not just money per se, but all material things. Thus the 3 indicates that by the means of material things - roses, dinners, whatever she enjoys - he will not lose any time in putting it to her, thus allaying her anxiety.
In short, she should expect a nice dinner and a super-hot date with him very soon.
Now I'm a curious creature and I had to draw a 4th card to see what the Q was looking at beyond her sword. Ok, maybe nothing, maybe that giant sword has her full attention there in her. . .lap.
But I pulled another card anyway: 9 Coin. In the list, the 9 is the process of the action, which - blush - in this situation really seems quite clear and to need no further comment.
Do you agree Mel and is this clear Sravana, how the list meanings make pip readings quite simple?
So to pick up an older question from Mel, no i never get bored with the relationship question! Me all Blonde, I live the Relationship Question.
So let's take the Relationship Question: "How does he feel about me now?" For brevity's sake let's do 3 cards, and to address Sravana, let's apply the list.
Noblet TdM:
Ok, let's agree the Q is our querent. She looks a little anxious, her brow is furrowed and she has a slight frown as she stares at the big giant sword in her lap.
Jodo in his Art of Tarot describes this lady as "quick witted" and notes that "she keeps her sword in her lap and in her sight, aware of her own strength & power." Ok, c'mon, we know what's on this lady's mind in the context of this question!
Then comes the big giant Ace Baton. Well, I guess that's the him of this question, and as we're trying to keep this a family website, let's just say they are both clearly interested in the same thing. We know what kind of relationship they are pursuing here, ahem. Jodo simply keywords this as "creation, domination, sex."
In Mel's list this, the A is the 1, the "by which" she will learn how he feels for her. Could the tarot be more direct? I think not! Well, that seems real self-explanatory. I suggest she not worry about the fancy lingerie as I don't think it'll stay on her long enough for him to notice. . .
The next card is the 3 Coins. In Mel's list, the 3 is the "by means of which," and coins are the suit of safety, physicality, health, not just money per se, but all material things. Thus the 3 indicates that by the means of material things - roses, dinners, whatever she enjoys - he will not lose any time in putting it to her, thus allaying her anxiety.
In short, she should expect a nice dinner and a super-hot date with him very soon.
Now I'm a curious creature and I had to draw a 4th card to see what the Q was looking at beyond her sword. Ok, maybe nothing, maybe that giant sword has her full attention there in her. . .lap.
But I pulled another card anyway: 9 Coin. In the list, the 9 is the process of the action, which - blush - in this situation really seems quite clear and to need no further comment.
Do you agree Mel and is this clear Sravana, how the list meanings make pip readings quite simple?
Melanchollic
frelkins,
Uncle Siggy (Freud) would have had a hay-day with you girl!! Umm-um.
Sounds good. Personally, with a 3 card spread like this I would take advantage of the built in symbolism of the positions -
Uncle Siggy (Freud) would have had a hay-day with you girl!! Umm-um.
Sounds good. Personally, with a 3 card spread like this I would take advantage of the built in symbolism of the positions -
The Querent.......What's going on between them........The Quesited
frelkins
Melanchollic said:Uncle Siggy (Freud) would have had a hay-day with you girl!! Umm-um.
Why Mel does it come as a shock to you that the ladies luv da action too?
This chick in my dance class has the hots for this guy, and I think it's clear the interest is waaay mutual. There really isn't anything more archetypal or whatever than the TdM itself, right? isn't this one of its advantages?
Melanchollic said:
If we take that approach, then I'm tempted to say he could actually fall in love with her based on the 3 Coins, altho' i know you don't like these "design details." but the two coins are "coupled together" by the blue figure and then above them they are joined by the coin in the flowering heart shape. Awww. So sweet.
back atcha Mel! But Sravana, has this addressed your questions?
Melanchollic
Loop Model #4
The geometric relationships between the numbers also can help guide us in making assumptions about specific meanings of these numbers, as was the case with the 'The Square Model'. The 1/10, 3 and 8 form an upward triangle, and the more 'challenging' numbers 2, 4/7 and 9 form a downward triangle, giving us a nice mnemonic device.
The geometric relationships between the numbers also can help guide us in making assumptions about specific meanings of these numbers, as was the case with the 'The Square Model'. The 1/10, 3 and 8 form an upward triangle, and the more 'challenging' numbers 2, 4/7 and 9 form a downward triangle, giving us a nice mnemonic device.
frelkins
Melanchollic said:
Mel, i
you, but I still don't get this.it seems to me that in the context of the question the cards interpret we, to be Yoda-esque about it.
i just don't get why certain numbers could be "challenging" outside of any sitter's context. That's why I'm a-luvin' da list, because it leaves value judgements to the context of the sitter and simply describes the movement of the energy. help me!
