Sorry - we have had to remove all large images of the Baroque Bohemian Cats' deck

spoonbender

Hi Karen,
I don't have much to add here, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear about this! I can't believe someone would do such a thing.

I wish you all the best.

Warm regards,
Spoonbender
 

Astra

skytwig said:
Which is why I suggested in another thread, that we move Tarot Deck Creation to the Subscriber section.... it is like a Nursery of baby decks and we now have it flung so far out in public that anyone can 'shop' their for stealing.....

I really think we need to stop being so generous with our trust and accept that we are brilliant people with great ideas from whom others want to steal!!! Of all the forums on this site, this one seems to be most vulnerable and maybe even most valuable.....

Oops! - clicked Submit too fast.

I totally agree on putting it in the Subscriber section. Besides the obvious, I suspect it might be a draw for new subscriptions - people who are really serious about the subject shouldn't have much trouble with paying for it - especially if we who are working in it plug the section on our sites to some extent.
 

baba-prague

Many thanks for all this support. It has been a great help. Alex and I are both feeling better about this. I think from a legal perspective we have nothing to worry about now - but it's simply the sheer shock of realising that something like this was being done.

I have very mixed feelings about putting the "Creation" forum under subscribers. I do think it would be a shame if it was much less accessible to people just starting out.

There may be some other solution., though I'm not sure as yet what it could be.

Our problem is NOT a bootleg deck - if it was that I think the situation would be simpler. It is much more an "intellectual property" theft. Something that I, for one, was much less aware of as a potential problem.
Showing a deck in public doesn't necessarily make this more likely - though in my opinion it can make the issue much worse if someone can get hold of reasonable quality pictures to support their claims (by the way, it's one reason we really only show low-res pictures - they lose a lot visually and this has sometimes been very frustrating - but to show the "real thing" is just TOO crazily risky).

Our situation has absolutely nothing to do with AT - I doubt the person concerned even knows it exists. But I do dread a situation in which someone could come across work here and take some sort of similar action. That would be a real tragedy and to help to prevent this perhaps there does at least need to be some basic, thorough advice posted as a "sticky" in this forum - just to give people some guidelines on being careful.

It all sounds very legalistic but honestly, having had this experience I would now post things like links to good, free Non-Disclosure Agreements. We can explain clearly that none of us are lawyers (well, maybe some of us are?) but that we are simply compiling "best practice" based on our own good - and bad - experiences. I think that might go some way to protect people.

With my corporate identity background I at least moved very quickly on this and knew more or less what to do - and I think there may be no more problems once we get through this initial week of taking formal action. But a less experienced person might not know what to do and could get into real trouble.

As a community - which I think AT really is (I am more than ever feeling this after this experience - thank-you!) we do have some duty of care towards new members, even if we can only do something basic like an advice sheet.
 

baba-prague

Just also to say that I'll reply properly and more individually. The readings were very useful indeed - and somehow comforting.

I also want to say how shocked I was to hear Skytwig's story. It is really far, far worse than what we are experiencing. The person doing this to us is NOT in fact capable of doing much visually - he works by threats, not by doing any actual work! To have something like this done to you by a talented artist is really more serious. So sorry to hear this happened Skytwig.

What does come out from this thread and another similar one is that this kind of experience isn't all that rare. This is worrying, especially in these days of the internet when things are in some ways so open.
 

HudsonGray

Baba, you can document every step you've taken with making this deck, to prove you're the owners of it. From paying the museum to take digital pictures, to contacting the cat clubs, to hiring the lady to do the costumes, to the printer seeing the cards & working with you on inks & papers. You've also got the different versions on your computer & probably printouts up the yin yang, if it came to a legal showdown, your ass is covered on the entire making of the deck, not to mention your journal backing you up & the postings here.

I know in the UK Scotland Yard follows up on theft of visual property--any videos and DVD's out of there have warnings on (which I was surprised to see here in the US). The US has the copyright office, FBI & such to back up legal claims. I'm sure Czechoslovakia has something you can turn to also.
 

baba-prague

Ironwing said:
I've found stolen versions of my "Vulture Totem" poem on three different websites. My mountain lion skull drawing was ripped off my website and used for a CD album cover B]


Dear Lorena. It's really awful how many of these stories we all have once we begin to compare notes. A dear friend of mine many years ago (quite an elderly artist) walked into the post office only to find one of her paintings used in a Royal Mail advertising campaign! I don't think for a moment that the UK Royal Mail had knowingly pirated it (in fact I once met their head of design and he was almost too "correct" :) ) - what had happened is that someone had sold them her painting without explaining that they did not own copyright. She was very hard up at the time and really could have done with the money. In the end she did very little - she couldn't afford to employ lawyers.

If we can get together at some point and compose a "sticky" with a few cautionary tales and some basic "dos and don'ts" I do think that would be a useful thing.

Meantime I am going to try to restore the pictures but at very small sizes (it will take quite a time I think). I woke up this morning and just felt that I WILL NOT be chased off the web by this one nasty person. But I will not put up anything that could be used by anyone - and please forgive all the weeny images you will see!

_____

Lorena - also many thanks for your really lovely (in both words and visuals) email - I will be in touch.
 

baba-prague

HudsonGray said:
Baba, you can document every step you've taken with making this deck, to prove you're the owners of it.

Hudson - you're right, and I must say I've calmed down a lot. The reading I did said that The Tower and The Devil are behind us and we have the Eight of Wands and the Three of Wands to look forward to. This sounds good! I do think we woke up to all this early enough and did the right things.

The lesson beyond all that I have learnt and that you will probably get sick of hearing me say is "Don't sign anything without legal advice - no matter how innocuous it looks and no matter how "nice" the person presenting it may seem".

edited to add - and just to be entirely practical. If you can't afford legal advice (and many people can't) then at the very least read everything really thoroughly, take time (do not be bullied into signing anything in a rush) and if anything seems a bit odd or fishy or you don't fully understand it - say NO.
 

Page

G

G I'm away for a few days and wooaah!

I agree with what's been said…

Everyone at some point in their creative life has just dragged a image on to their desk top and used it in their work for a personal project or other wise. I know I have. But what's gone on is just pure nasty.

I also should say that I have not read all the posts so I don't know all the in's or out's to comment, not that my comments would be any use :joke:

I must admit I did have a few worrying PM's in the past but now this has kicked off I will forward my concerns to AT

I hope the spring will do some cleaning:)

Thank goodness. I've a good copyrights lawyer who specializes in online property, which saves me going into paranoia city :)

One simple step is to send all your work recorded delivery (a normal post stamp won't do) in the post or you can send it to a copyrights back. BEFORE you put anywork online.
 

Page

For some reason I can't edit my last post
I just wanted to add

In general there is nothing to worry about if you take the right steps. However if there is problem all that facts ie. what, who, contact the person(s) website in question first as you will have to be put forward before any legal action taken. As some people can claim that they didn't know they had to as for permission, even if it's clear as day. Also your lawyer/ copyright agency can do the mediation for you, and can sort out any misunderstands if any.
 

Lady Eclipse

Oh Karen!

I'm so sorry to hear of this misfortunate turn of events. I go away for a couple weeks to complete editing on one of my books, come back, and find this going on! I'll throw some cards for you later today and let you know what comes up. If there's anything else I can do to help, please don't hesitate to ask.

Joy to you,
Maralee