Can Tarot really foretell the Future ?

trzes

Phew, this thread is going fast! But I still owe an answer from far above:

Just let me bring this back to earth, and trivialize it in the worste possible way, like one of my querent put it : ( because I once ventured into a very similar explanation, without being too sure of it myself...) " Why, of all the possible universes, we invariably end up in the worste possible "state", as you would call it, or, to use your language again, we always experience the worste possible future our subconscious has to offer ?
Sorry for trivializing your excellent explanation, but really, I've accumulated some statistics on this over the years, from myself and the people I've read for or spoken with, and favourable predictions have a tendency to turn out wrong, never the other way around....

That’s a good question, but I guess that my physics and philosophy stuff can’t contribute much to an answer. The average of all possible future outcomes might be rather bad. But there should be nothing that makes the outcomes that are even worse than average more likely that the better ones. If the general uncertainty also limits the knowledge of some divine entity then its knowledge shouldn’t be biased either.

Not that divine entities make much sense to me anyway, but a divine entity that deliberately produces biased answers because it sulks or wants to punish you for your improper attitudes seems particularly weird an implausible to me.

That leaves the human beings who have to perform the tarot reading in the end. I wouldn’t blame them for inaccurate readings in general (the blame is on the structure of the universe here), but they may be the cause of a bias towards readings that are too positive in the average.

Because often readers unconsciously pick up vibes from the querent (divination present or not) it may well be the querent who causes such a bias, especially when it is about relationships, like in the example from the beginning of the thread. People who have fallen in love often behave rather compulsive, they are so occupied by their desire that they tend to ignore low chances or the fact that they wouldn’t really fit together with the one they fancy. A similar sort of self-deception occurs with people who already are in a relationship. They often won’t admit to themselves if a relationship doesn’t work and it takes a long time while people pretend to themselves and others that things are fine until they suddenly split up and all friends and family are surprised or shocked. This bias I would guess is liable to influence the reader and let them produce a positive bias in relationship readings. Maybe a very experienced reader could avoid this bias. I don’t know.

But the readers themselves may be biased too. I’ll start form the point of view of a personal coach or therapist. What is a good rule of thumb for advice when someone is looking for a relationship but chances or perspectives are unclear and hard to judge? Well, there are two kinds of wrong advices. One is to recommend going for a relationship while it later turns out not to work. The other one is not to recommend it, while the fancied person may really be the one for a lifetime. From my personal experience those relationships that have turned out not to work bug me much less than the ones that never have existed because I will never know what I missed. Therefore in case of doubt I would always say “go for it and try”. I would be surprised if considerations like this wouldn’t influence a tarot reader in those situations where a reading isn’t spot on from the very beginning. And I actually think that this is fine.
 

frejasphere

... I am not sure what you meant by saying that my friend was allowed to " see what she needed to see..."... what, she needed to be mislead and let down ? Yes, our lives are full of challanges, obstacles, that sometimes seem to be getting bigger and harder to overcome as we move on...are they there for a purpose ? Catholics have their own theory about it...personally, I am often tempted to think that not everything in life has a meaning and purpose; not everything has to make sense...but even so, why would karma, or fate, or a spiteful spirit, or whatever you want to call it, want to make things worse for us, by adding insult to injury, feeding false hope through tarot, for instance, making the bad surprise even more bitter..? ....

Nikita - ever so sorry about the delay *fast moving thread - faster moving life*... ;)
You asked what I meant by saying that the 3 readings allowed her to: 'see what she needed to see'... Difficult times, like happy times, are an intrinsic part of life - having a 'fact sheet' on hand (telling us which way things will end up) does not necessarily make things easier or even clearer... Let's say you cheat in a maths exam; you have somehow acquired the correct answers and enter each answer accurately before handing in your exam papers, which land you a 100% mark. Does this mean you 'know' or understand the answers? Of course not. Will you be in trouble if you are asked to elaborate on your answers? Absolutely... ;) The journey provides the experience and knowledge - not the end result.

At times our subconscious may give us an illusion or memory, which is perhaps different from 'reality' - trauma is one good example, but there are other situations as well, when we seemingly have to explore one aspect or 'truth' in order to learn that the opposite may be true. So in saying that 'she saw what she needed to see' I am merely suggesting that maybe she needed this experience, without the distraction of knowing otherwise... Oh, and I did say 'not' about karma, fate ... ;) Depending on what each individual believes, these may play a part in the explanation, in the same way as science, psychology or magic would for others - but I wasn't implying that they did :)

One problem (I find) with a 'complete and accurate' foretelling of the future, is that it would be bound to reveal events such as (our own or a loved one's) death, where pre-knowledge may distract and do more harm than good. Most of us do not have our 'end' date marked in a calendar, for good reason. What good would it do if a reading told you: '3 weeks from today - early morning - heart attack - your time is up'? I know this is taking foretelling the future to the 'end-point' which most readers do not approach, though it does seem relevant on the scale of what 'will' happen...

@Flames talked about people wanting to read a chapter ahead, to gain a sneak peek of the future - The sneak peek is a bit like the 'ol movie trailer... Notice how trailers are edited, spliced and jumbled for dramatic effect? Individual frames are true to the movie, but the editing is done to make us believe certain events are connected, or will happen in a certain way - when in the actual movie (as in life), the story may well unfold in a different way...

A predictive reading is perhaps a way of interpreting the future with all the possibilities, probabilities and variables intact?
 

ravenest

Are you intuitive? Then you may well be psychic unconsciously, at least to some degree... As intuition generally encompasses psychic components. But even excellent psychics can't always reliably predict future events due to the "Sternbach uncertainty relation" that I have hinted at above.

Ooops, nearly forgot to answer you.

Yes, I am intuitive. Psychic ? I wouldnt use that word.

But what I said is what I used to TELL people .
 

ravenest

I dont get this :

" Why, of all the possible universes, we invariably end up in the worste possible "state", as you would call it, or, to use your language again, we always experience the worste possible future our subconscious has to offer ? "


Errrmmm ... I'm not. Am I that far apart from everyone ? It might not be the 'best possible state' but it certainly isnt the worst .
 

frejasphere

I dont get this :

" Why, of all the possible universes, we invariably end up in the worste possible "state", as you would call it, or, to use your language again, we always experience the worste possible future our subconscious has to offer ? "

Errrmmm ... I'm not. Am I that far apart from everyone ? It might not be the 'best possible state' but it certainly isnt the worst .

No, you're not that far apart ;) - On sums and balances, I find life a pretty exhilarating ride :)

I can't see how I could always experience the worst possible future my subconscious has to offer - if that were so, I would be dead long ago, would I not? :bugeyed:
 

Farzon

Nikita - ever so sorry about the delay *fast moving thread - faster moving life*... ;)
You asked what I meant by saying that the 3 readings allowed her to: 'see what she needed to see'... Difficult times, like happy times, are an intrinsic part of life - having a 'fact sheet' on hand (telling us which way things will end up) does not necessarily make things easier or even clearer... Let's say you cheat in a maths exam; you have somehow acquired the correct answers and enter each answer accurately before handing in your exam papers, which land you a 100% mark. Does this mean you 'know' or understand the answers? Of course not. Will you be in trouble if you are asked to elaborate on your answers? Absolutely... ;) The journey provides the experience and knowledge - not the end result.

At times our subconscious may give us an illusion or memory, which is perhaps different from 'reality' - trauma is one good example, but there are other situations as well, when we seemingly have to explore one aspect or 'truth' in order to learn that the opposite may be true. So in saying that 'she saw what she needed to see' I am merely suggesting that maybe she needed this experience, without the distraction of knowing otherwise... Oh, and I did say 'not' about karma, fate ... ;) Depending on what each individual believes, these may play a part in the explanation, in the same way as science, psychology or magic would for others - but I wasn't implying that they did :)

One problem (I find) with a 'complete and accurate' foretelling of the future, is that it would be bound to reveal events such as (our own or a loved one's) death, where pre-knowledge may distract and do more harm than good. Most of us do not have our 'end' date marked in a calendar, for good reason. What good would it do if a reading told you: '3 weeks from today - early morning - heart attack - your time is up'? I know this is taking foretelling the future to the 'end-point' which most readers do not approach, though it does seem relevant on the scale of what 'will' happen...

@Flames talked about people wanting to read a chapter ahead, to gain a sneak peek of the future - The sneak peek is a bit like the 'ol movie trailer... Notice how trailers are edited, spliced and jumbled for dramatic effect? Individual frames are true to the movie, but the editing is done to make us believe certain events are connected, or will happen in a certain way - when in the actual movie (as in life), the story may well unfold in a different way...

A predictive reading is perhaps a way of interpreting the future with all the possibilities, probabilities and variables intact?
That's a very intriguing point of view!

When I think back to negative readings I had, they only never showed how to prepare for things to come, only the outcome. And these readings were much more of a distraction than a help.

And some of those didn't come true after all! Because I have set actions that drove things another way. Which I think is evidence enough that this is surely not the worst of all possible worlds. Phew, close! 😉
 

dancing_moon

I dont get this :

" Why, of all the possible universes, we invariably end up in the worste possible "state", as you would call it, or, to use your language again, we always experience the worste possible future our subconscious has to offer ? "


Errrmmm ... I'm not. Am I that far apart from everyone ? It might not be the 'best possible state' but it certainly isnt the worst .

I'm not, either. But then, my subconscious always offers me such glorious and dazzling possible futures... :D

Actually, from what I've seen, 'the worst possible future' often comes to pass when you're either absolutely sure it'll happen or when you're actively avoiding it. But then, the same is true for 'the best possible future'.
 

trzes

I dont get this :

" Why, of all the possible universes, we invariably end up in the worste possible "state", as you would call it, or, to use your language again, we always experience the worste possible future our subconscious has to offer ? "


Errrmmm ... I'm not. Am I that far apart from everyone ? It might not be the 'best possible state' but it certainly isnt the worst .

While slowly turning into a disenchanted old fart my perception of the future has become a fair bit more balanced :D So I am with you on this too. That is speaking in very general terms, not just about relationship readings, not limitied to tarot at all. It seems it's this general view that Nikita_ hat in mind in her post indeed.

And BTW my growing age and experience didn't make my percepton of the future any more accurate, with or without tarot. Only the bias has become smaller.

The journey provides the experience and knowledge - not the end result.

I second everything you said. While it is obviously true that without perception of the future we wouldn't be able to make any decisions a all, I am sure that focussing to much on how exactly things will turn out isn't good either.

One brief example to illustrate: My daughter's best friend recently celebrated her 4th birthday. She had been full of perception for a month or so, teasing her parents with all kinds of plans and precise ideas what would have to happen and when. During the acutal event she bossed around all the other children in order to make the party precisely match her detailed expectations. Of course this ended up in a big drama and the worst tantrum the girl ever had.
 

frejasphere

That's a very intriguing point of view!

When I think back to negative readings I had, they only never showed how to prepare for things to come, only the outcome. And these readings were much more of a distraction than a help.

And some of those didn't come true after all! Because I have set actions that drove things another way. Which I think is evidence enough that this is surely not the worst of all possible worlds. Phew, close! 😉

Well said Farzon :)

I spent the last 2 days changing fly-screens... it's a slightly frustrating job for someone impatient (like me) and uninitiated in the the graces of removing and replacing flimsy screens in window frames (like me), as they tend to warp, buckle and bend when you aren't a pro ;)

The job is happily done, but it would have been very distracting to know beforehand that I would break a few along the way (and have to resort to gaffa-tape and other inventive implements (hammer) before they were in place... Point being, that believing that: "I'll knock this job out of the way in a few hours" - actually helped me to see it through. I know myself well enough to know that detours do happen, and I deal with them... But had I known in advance that the job was bigger than I 'wanted' it to be, I may well have put it off for another day.

I second everything you said. While it is obviously true that without perception of the future we wouldn't be able to make any decisions a all, I am sure that focussing to much on how exactly things will turn out isn't good either.

One brief example to illustrate: My daughter's best friend recently celebrated her 4th birthday. She had been full of perception for a month or so, teasing her parents with all kinds of plans and precise ideas what would have to happen and when. During the acutal event she bossed around all the other children in order to make the party precisely match her detailed expectations. Of course this ended up in a big drama and the worst tantrum the girl ever had.

Thank you trzes :) and for you thought-provoking and resonating ideas in this thread :)
On this last post: I know adults who behave the same way ;) :D
 

lightpers

I am currently in the same boat with Nikita, when i did reading for someone, the cards showing all good things between her and her new guy that she wanted to date but eventually the guy was not in love with her. worse case for myself is when i asking for prediction, the cards seems to be not showing future event even when the card in future position in the spread.

for me, maybe tarot is just a mirror of ourselves afterall or maybe my incompetence reading what the cards wanted tell me to be or maybe the cards didn't care at all except our current fate in this life.