Birth Time

Azarial

I am trying to do a chart for a friend, but of course I don't know his time of birth, and neither does he! So I was wondering which signs and houses, and positions are accurate without having a birth time? I guess what I mean is which are the slower moving planets and things that are accurate without a birth time?
 

Grigori

The Moon is the fastest mover, and could be more than 10 degrees off, though its nodes will not be far off. Mercury, Venus and Mars are pretty fast too, and might be a degree or so away. Jupiter, Saturn and the moderns won't have moved too much so you could take them as they are, just be a bit more wary of aspects that are loose and seperating I guess.

But the houses will be completely off so you really can't rely on them. You really be limited to the aspects and signs the planets appear in.

There is a thread here where Dadsnook talks you through rectifying a chart, that might be useful for you.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=91899

And there are a couple of thread you might find useful on techniques to use for unknown birthtimes or where to get a birthtime. Alternatively you could perhaps do a sunrise chart or something like that.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=40471
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=64460
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=6346
 

Azarial

Well, I'm trying to narrow it down now. so far I've narrowed it down to between 4:00am-9:19am, or 11:04am-11:59pm. What a task, lol.
 

Azarial

Well, he was born June 23, 1985 sometime between 6:17am and 8:36am. Anyone have anymore ideas on how I can narrow it down? Like how do I look for traumatic events in a chart or something like that? His mom died January 23, 2006.
 

dadsnook2000

Death of the Mother in a chart

I would suggest that you calculate several charts -- perhaps for 6:15, 6:45, 7:15, 7:45, 8:15 and 8:45. Then--
1) Look to see what planets are in the 4th and 10th houses and the MC and IC angles. This axis relates to the family. Often the mother is the 10th house, the father is the 4th house in terms of how a child views the family. Yet, the home is the 4th, the family status and well-being is considered to be shown by the 10th house.
2) Look for the sign-rulers of the 4th and 10th house signs. Where they are relates to how the roles of the parents are modified in terms of their attitudes.
3) Look to the Moon's placement in the chart. The Moon's house may reflect the role of the mother and the needs one feels relative to the mother in terms of how one feels about her, depends upon her. Aspects to the Moon by other planets will show how you relate to her -- squares being stressful, etc. These aspects may or may not change or become more/less acute over the few hours of time that you believe this person was born within.

Using only the Moon or the rulers of the 4th/10th angles or the planets close to those angles, look for either --
4) Transits to those planets by Saturn, Neptune especially.
5) Transits over the Asc. or Desc. angles. If the death was due to old age, look for Saturn or Uranus. If the death was unexpected, look for Uranus. If death was due to infection, Mars or Neptune or both. If due to a heart condition, the Sun, Mars, perhaps Jupiter. If due to a blood condition, then Venus. All of the typical planet keywords will clue you into the situation.

There are many other tools that an advanced studies student would use such as various progression techniques, solar and lunar returns, and other types of charts but each of those has to be read in special ways which may or may not be known to the majority of those who follow this forum, and which would take too much time and space to cover here. Hope this helps. Dave
 

siren85

traumatic events? death of a mother-figure I would tend to associate with Moon-Pluto aspects, or Moon-Uranus aspects (sudden death, such as an accident). But, since his mom died only recently, I don't think that's really going to be seen in the natal chart. His mom died when he was about 21. So you might see a transit from Pluto to the Moon. This transit has often been associated with the death (Pluto) of a mother-figure (Moon).

Honestly, you could get a pretty good feel for the chart from the info you have. The only thing that's going to be off is the Moon (only by a few degrees) and the house placements.