Besançon / Marseille Cards Question

Paul,

I think I have the card. It has II on the top and JVNON at the bottom. I would send you a scan, but I coudn't figure how to get your email. If you or anyone else wants to see, feel free to ask.

jmd said:

I've taken my Encyclopedias out, and will see if there is a Besançon version with similar characteristics as La Force you have provided...

Click to expand...

these are not the same deck, but may help point you in the right direction.

volume II, page 357, Joseph Henri Rochias Tarot, 1816, while obviously not the same deck or card, has a lion that appears to have a red spot and red mouth.

volume I, page 155, French Revolutionary Tarot, by L. Carey, Strasbourg, 1791, shows a very similar Le Bateleur.

Clearly Besançon, then... the Junon (& Jupiter) settles this aspect.

So these cards are Besançon? Now the next question. What is Besançon?

Because there are some subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences between decks, names serve to distinguish these.

In some protestant regions, cards II and V of the Atouts/Major Arcana (allegorically picturesque cards), 'traditionally' called the Popess and the Pope, were replaced with Juno and with Jupiter respectively. This is a significant change from the more standard Marseille arrangement and labelling - which has gained the general name 'Besançon' (another city, as is Marseilles).

Not sure if this is too little information...

Besançon decks

http://www.trigono.com/tarots/tarot-besacon.htm

http://www.tarothermit.com/lineage.htm

http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards28.htm

The identification of your cards

Hi Kevin

This is indeed a Tarot de Besancon (a type of tarot which has probably its
origin in Starsbourg) , and I am pretty sure that your deck is by the company
"Blanck & Tschann" or Guillaume Mann, both are cardmakers in Colmar, France.
(Guillaume Mann's 2 de Deniers, which has the same inscription "[ ]M CARTIER
ANNO 1752", can be seen in "TAROT-TAROCK-TAROCCHI" by Detlef Hoffmann
and Margot Dietrich, p93.)

I'm very curious about which cardmaker your deck was produced by.
If it's by G. Mann, all the crowns and many titles of the cards should have
been eliminated -- for Guillaume Mann succeeded Blanck & Tchann around
1790, soon after the French Revolution.
How about your cards?

By the way, a similar pack of G. Mann tarot was recently sold at an auction
for US$5272! (tax & buyer's premier included price)

Rusty Neon,

The first link you just provided sure looks close to mine. I have different variations in colors. Were there strict standards or some colors interchangeable?

Kenji, how does XI La Force's Lion's forelegs compare in terms of colour and detail with HarryHoudini's deck?

Kenji,

I'm not really up to speed on which card is which. If you need to see some, just tell me which ones would help you. Just make it simple for me to locate them. If we were talking sleight-of-hand or cheating at cards, I wouldn't be so badly informed.