Dealing with a stellium in the sixth house

Minderwiz

I was rather afraid you were going to say something like that, which is why I phrased my post with care. If we take the ninth place as indicating higher education, then it is ruled by Mars and contains the sect light, the Moon conjunct to the astronomic MC. Mars in this chart is capable of being positive as it has Venus in a superior trine (forward in the order of signs). As Venus is the benefic planet of sect that will boost Mars as a positive influence. So far so good. He is capable of achievement. However the Moon itself is overcome by Saturn, which is in a superior square to it from Capricorn. This will weaken his performance, most likely in the initial or early stages (and that could be years).

The Moon is also the ruler of his twelfth place. Amongst the significations are travel (but not with good results) and loss (some Astrologers see that as self inflicted but I think that would be more so if his Ascendant ruler was in the twelfth). The Moon also has natural significations with wandering or wanderlust and with the public. So it is not surprising that his attitudes and approach are to keep his options open - the ability to travel in different directions, metaphorically speaking, but that is likely to result in loss - he will not do well or even fail. Longer term things look better, especially if he gets help from friends or sponsors. You are right to recognise the need for application on his part. The problem is convincing him of that.

His tenth place of career is ruled by Venus, the benefic of sect, and oddly, acting is a Venus type career. However again, you are right to point out that acting is rarely successful on its own, especially in early life. He does need an alternative.

His Lot of Fortune also lies in his tenth, which is a good placement. He might well benefit from being in the right place at the right time. This also is an indicator that his health should be good, given Venus' rulership. This isn't an indication of a lucky life though. As I said before Venus is ruled by Saturn, and Saturn is badly placed in the chart. What is offered is curtailed and he will likely have to work for it.

I don't see a quick fix here. I would however point out that fate is not inevitable, it is only probable to a greater or lesser degree and it may be overcome by hard work. In his case there is actually promise around the career and qualifications but they have to be worked for. At the moment, from your description he's deluding or fooling himself (Ruler of the twelfth in the ninth) that things will fall into his lap.

I'm not a consultant but you might try getting him to seek some form of therapy as he does need to take command of his life. The angular placement of the Sun, suggests this can be done, the rulership by Saturn suggests that it won't be done easily and if he does nothing he won't achieve.
 

fairylights

Sigh. I did not think there were any quick fixes in any case. Thank you for confirming it. I guess the only thing for him now is to be patient and keep trying. The question of course is what he's going to try at. He has asked me for space so that he can figure it out himself. Being around me clouds his judgement as he ends up doing what he thinks will make me secure and happy rather than figuring out what makes him secure and happy. Which is obviously not great, so I think non-interference is the best option. I guess I can be an overly bossy partner sometimes.

I did persuade him to see a therapist and he says he likes him so I hope that will help. Thanks for your time and the solid advice.

One question: what is the Lot of Fortune? I have never heard of this term before.
 

Minderwiz

For what it's worth, I still think what he needs is you, no matter what the issues in his way. I did take a look at your chart and there's an interesting parallel with his. He has Venus, ruler of the tenth place of career in the seventh place of marriage - a link between his marriage partner and his work, or at least marriage and work. You have Mercury, ruler of your seventh place or marriage in the tenth place of career. You also have a link between marriage and career. So that possibility of you doing something together will hold. It is, of course, not a guarantee of success, but it is some common reference to build on.

The Lot of Fortune (often called the Part of Fortune) is a point calculated from the positions of Sun, Moon and Ascendant. It gives some indication of those environmental or other external factors which life throws up. It has a counter part called the Lot of Spirit, which is also based on Sun Moon and Ascendant, but reversing the roles of Sun and Moon. It is seen as what the person can call on to influence the world around them - the ability to deal with those environmental or external factors. Because the Moon is the main planet in the calculation of Fortune, it is seen as having indications for health and welfare. The main planet in Spirit is the Sun, and so is an indicator of inner strength or vitality. In his case Venus rules both Lots, as Fortune is in Taurus and Spirit is in Libra. That opposition of the two Lots is common to people born around the first or third quarter of the Moon. Venus being angular and in her own triplicity, should indicate that he's likely to be reasonably well off in terms of what fate delivers and how he deals with it. However Venus ruled by Saturn in his chart is an indicator that much of that will not happen. If you take Saturn as an indicator of doubt and limitation then it rules his Ascendant ruler - and thus shows up as self doubt and it rules his Marriage ruler so we have self doubt coupled with doubt about his marriage/relationships (because of his own doubt in himself).

He needs help to see that he has opportunities, and striving for them, even if they bring limited reward, is worthwhile and will give meaning and value to his life. Left to himself he will convince himself that the world is against him and he can't win. Better to take no action than fail in the attempt. That is not a good approach to life.
 

fairylights

Hmm, I thought I was done with this but actually, I have another technical question. I thought my Mercury was in the 9th house, not the 10th? Are you using a different system from the one in the chart I posted? I'm a little confused ...

I know Virgo is in my 7th and I read somewhere that as the missing leg of my t-square it will be an area that I experience a strong lack in ... so that will tie into my career?

Also, is there any place I can calculate the Lot of Fortune/Lot of Spirit online or do I need to bust out the calculator and do it by hand?


For what it's worth, I still think what he needs is you, no matter what the issues in his way. I did take a look at your chart and there's an interesting parallel with his. He has Venus, ruler of the tenth place of career in the seventh place of marriage - a link between his marriage partner and his work, or at least marriage and work. You have Mercury, ruler of your seventh place or marriage in the tenth place of career. You also have a link between marriage and career. So that possibility of you doing something together will hold. It is, of course, not a guarantee of success, but it is some common reference to build on.

The Lot of Fortune (often called the Part of Fortune) is a point calculated from the positions of Sun, Moon and Ascendant. It gives some indication of those environmental or other external factors which life throws up. It has a counter part called the Lot of Spirit, which is also based on Sun Moon and Ascendant, but reversing the roles of Sun and Moon. It is seen as what the person can call on to influence the world around them - the ability to deal with those environmental or external factors. Because the Moon is the main planet in the calculation of Fortune, it is seen as having indications for health and welfare. The main planet in Spirit is the Sun, and so is an indicator of inner strength or vitality. In his case Venus rules both Lots, as Fortune is in Taurus and Spirit is in Libra. That opposition of the two Lots is common to people born around the first or third quarter of the Moon. Venus being angular and in her own triplicity, should indicate that he's likely to be reasonably well off in terms of what fate delivers and how he deals with it. However Venus ruled by Saturn in his chart is an indicator that much of that will not happen. If you take Saturn as an indicator of doubt and limitation then it rules his Ascendant ruler - and thus shows up as self doubt and it rules his Marriage ruler so we have self doubt coupled with doubt about his marriage/relationships (because of his own doubt in himself).

He needs help to see that he has opportunities, and striving for them, even if they bring limited reward, is worthwhile and will give meaning and value to his life. Left to himself he will convince himself that the world is against him and he can't win. Better to take no action than fail in the attempt. That is not a good approach to life.
 

Rhoswen

www.astro.com

Choose the Extended Chart Selection (bottom right, scroll way down) under "Free horoscopes at Astrodienst." On the bottom left, under Additional Objects, you can select the Part of Fortune to be included in the chart.

This is a free site—at least for these calculations.
 

fairylights

www.astro.com

Choose the Extended Chart Selection (bottom right, scroll way down) under "Free horoscopes at Astrodienst." On the bottom left, under Additional Objects, you can select the Part of Fortune to be included in the chart.

This is a free site—at least for these calculations.

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. I have a Sun opposition Moon aspect in my chart, so I guess that means my Part of Spirit and Part of Fortune are pretty much in the same place?
 

Minderwiz

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. I have a Sun opposition Moon aspect in my chart, so I guess that means my Part of Spirit and Part of Fortune are pretty much in the same place?

Yes, they will both be near the Descendant (on the Descendant if the opposition is exact).

fairylights said:
Hmm, I thought I was done with this but actually, I have another technical question. I thought my Mercury was in the 9th house, not the 10th? Are you using a different system from the one in the chart I posted? I'm a little confused ...

I know Virgo is in my 7th and I read somewhere that as the missing leg of my t-square it will be an area that I experience a strong lack in ... so that will tie into my career?

Your Mercury lies at 9 degrees 1 minute Sagittarius, your MC lies at 9 minutes 49 Sagittarius, so that's a partile conjunction (both in the same degree). So if I had been using a quadrant system (MC is the cusp of the tenth House) I'd treat Mercury as very strongly tenth house. Indeed since Medieval times there's been a view that a planet within five degrees of the next cusp should be treated as being in the following house. So even if Mercury were at 5 degrees Sagittarius, it would be treated as tenth house.

I actually used whole sign houses, for my chart but Sagittarius is the tenth sign from Pisces, so the whole of the sign constitutes your tenth. Using whole signs (as in Jyotish) means that the MC may not actually be in the tenth place, as with your Significant Other, whose MC lies in the ninth whole sign house. It wasn't till the later medieval period that quadrant houses supplanted whole sign houses in the Western tradition. That appears to be because of misreading of Ptolemy. Up to the tenth century, Astrologers used whole sign houses for topical analysis (the sort we are doing here) and quadrant houses to assess planetary strength (usually in relation to the length of life calculation). Ptolemy followed the rest in this distinction but didn't actually explain he was using whole sign houses for the rest, because to him it was obvious - everyone did it.

So the only calculation Ptolemy gives for the houses is when he is discussing the length of life calculation and like every one else's it is based on a quadrant system. So terse is Ptolemy that for the next thousand years Astrologers have tried to reconstruct Ptolemy's system or come up with the best quadrant system. Interesting though this is, it misses the point entirely when it comes to Ptolemy and topical analysis.

Incidentally, that's why Jyotish still uses the system of whole sign houses, as this system was imported into India well before the change in the West. So Jyotish Astrologers are actually using the original Western system of houses.

Does that mean we should only use whole sign houses? Well it would be nice but it ain't really going to happen. One thousand years of using quadrant systems won't change overnight and in principle, there's no real reason why quadrant houses shouldn't be used. It's just that they throw up difficulties which intensify as we move further away from the equator and break down in the polar regions. However for the vast majority of the Earth's population that's not a major issue.

Coming back to your SO, I'm glad that he is amenable to a therapist. If I were a consulting astrologer, I'd certainly want to chat with him several times in depth before recommending a course of action. He has potential but it will take a lot to get him to see it. So get him to keep at it and good luck.