RWS Correspondences - Sources?

Is there any book or website that discusses & reveals the real "meat and potatoes" Golden Dawn, Astrological, Masonic, Graal, etc... imagery, "factoids", and correspondences in the RWS deck?

There seem to be several good books on the Thoth and other GD tarot decks.

Is there anything similar for the RWS tarot deck?

I located the following ancient tidbit that might be a start, however I'd really appreciate some opinions on the accuracy of the correspondences.

It's called the Greer - Cinnabar Tarot Course. It's dated 1988, but it's a start.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKfwwllHRQsQURSWTQ2MkFXTTA/edit?usp=sharing

Enjoy...

TG

If the "Greer" relates to Mary Greer, she knows as much as anyone living about the Waite deck, you might want to check out her blog (and it is rumored that she is working on a book about the subject). As for the rest, unfortunately I know of no source that holds all the information. Study can be conducted independently, however. The Golden Dawn's Book T, which can be downloaded for free, has all the basic attributions. I don't know exactly what you already know about the subject, but Book T isn't exactly meaty, it is more a list than anything else. If you don't understand why a certain element is attributed to a certain card, you may not get much out of it.

For the Qabalistic angle I recommend Lon Milo DuQuette's Chicken Qabalah. It is an excellent primer and gives you all the information to get you started on that end. When it comes to astrology, that depends on the depth you're interested in. You will find in the Golden Dawn forum (a sub-forum of the Thoth) LRichard's cheat sheets which give in themselves a basic understanding of the structure of attributions. Exactly what this or that astrological sign or planet mean in a given context is up to you to find out (I use mythological associations, not having much interest in astrology). If you want to go deeper, I'm studying Astrology for Dummies. While not Tarot, or Golden Dawn, specific, it does give a basic understanding, again to get you going.

As to the Grail and Masonic legends, I don't know of any source for them that would be useful other than Waite's own writings, but it is like searching for needles in haystacks, so it does mean a whole lot of poring over texts.

Not much to go on, I know, no shortcuts, but one can take comfort in the fact that once you begin to study one GD deck, you'll understand all of them, including the RWS. This won't cover the more "advanced" stuff which is specific to the RWS (like an understanding of Thelema is useful for studying the Thoth) but it will open doors and at least make clearer what you don't know, what to look for and where.

ETA: You might also find Liber 777 interesting, it holds the most complete list of attributions and associations.

Mystical Origins of the Tarot - by Paul Huson has details of some of the earlier meanings, and you can see how the have 'morphed' into what we might use now.

Just another suggestion

Tarot and Astrology by Corrine Kenner explains the Golden Dawn astrological correlations but may be more astrology-intensive than you need.

Liber Θ is authoritative but assumes that you know some basic astrological jargon. It deviates ever so slightly from the Golden Dawn's original Book T, but otherwise it is a much better exposition of the system of correspondences.

LRichard said:

Tarot and Astrology by Corrine Kenner explains the Golden Dawn astrological correlations

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<snip> ... " Pair the planets, signs, and houses with their corresponding tarot cards."

How do astrological HOUSES equate to a tarot card ?

The general association of the astrological energy would be done through the planets and signs (with decans a subdivision of them) . I cant conceive of how houses could relate to cards - the other 2 main qualifiers in astrology are houses and aspects and they are about position and relationship of the energies, not the energies themselves ... unless it is by the Tarot equivalent of placement ... but cards positions are not the cards themselves; the same as house is a positional association with sign.


I'm stumped

ravenest said:

.....How do astrological HOUSES equate to a tarot card ?.....

Click to expand...

Damned if I know. Maybe someone who has the book can explain.

When it comes to the RWS, a distinction has to be made between "Hermeticism" and Mysticism.

Hermeticism, at least what passed as such in the late 19th century, teaches union with the Divine can be obtained through knowledge of secret doctrine and magic formulas. Mysticism, on the other hand, teaches union with the Divine can be obtained directly through meditation and contemplation. The Golden Dawn, at least the early GD before Waite took over, falls almost entirely on the Hermetic side. Crowley's philosophy is a mixture of both.

Waite's tarot comes from a mystical perspective and I believe it's a mistake to try and overlay it with a lot of Hermetic correspondences. Waite saw the tarot cards as gates that opened worlds of mystic visions. The RWS was influenced by Hermeticism to a certain extent, but I don't think it was an accident that Waite avoided loading the cards with a lot of Hermetic and Astrological correspondences.

There are a lot of books that speculate what the RWS symbolism corresponds to, but they miss the proverbial forest for trees.

Abrac said:

........Waite's tarot comes from a mystical perspective and I believe it's a mistake to try and overlay it with a lot of Hermetic correspondences. Waite saw the tarot cards as gates that opened worlds of mystic visions. The RWS was influenced by Hermeticism to a certain extent, but I don't think it was an accident that Waite avoided loading the cards with a lot of Hermetic and Astrological correspondences......

Click to expand...

Is it then an accident that the Golden Dawn deck (as reconstructed by Regardie and Wang) also is not loaded with hermetic and astrological correspondences? Neither is the BOTA deck, although there is no denying that Case was a consummate hermeticist. It was Crowley and Harris who initiated the trend to cram a lot of symbols into esoteric decks.

Abrac said:

When it comes to the RWS, a distinction has to be made between "Hermeticism" and Mysticism.

Hermeticism, at least what passed as such in the late 20th century, teaches union with the Divine can be obtained through knowledge of secret doctrine and magic formulas. Mysticism, on the other hand, teaches union with the Divine can be obtained directly through meditation and contemplation. The Golden Dawn, at least the early GD before Waite took over, falls almost entirely on the Hermetic side. Crowley's philosophy is a mixture of both.

Waite's tarot comes from a mystical perspective and I believe it's a mistake to try and overlay it with a lot of Hermetic correspondences. Waite saw the tarot cards as gates that opened worlds of mystic visions. The RWS was influenced by Hermeticism to a certain extent, but I don't think it was an accident that Waite avoided loading the cards with a lot of Hermetic and Astrological correspondences.

There are a lot of books that speculate what the RWS symbolism corresponds to, but they miss the proverbial forest for trees.

Click to expand...

I disagree about the distinction. While Hermeticism could indeed be thought of as the technique, it's aim is ultimately mystical. What you call doctrines isn't dogma, it is exactly that meditation and contemplation you speak of. Every Adept must learn the precise meaning of a symbol because it conveys a certain pure idea which he ultimately incorporates into himself. It wasn't the initiation ceremonies themselves that conveyed higher consciousness, but what they meant and how deeply the adept got into them (i.e., "mystic visions"). It was never the more trivia you know, the more advanced you are.

To say that the RWS was "influenced" by Hermeticism is to a certain extent, I believe, to miss the point, and even seems to imply the images were conceived out of thin air. The pictures can be easily traced back to Book T, and even a cursory glance at that "decoder" reveals that that attributions, whether astrological or Kabbalistic, aren't as hidden as they seem, they are actually quite apparent in many cases. It was the language of the occult itself that Waite was barred from revealing, not the mystical experience of it, which, yes, he did believe could be of benefit to the layman.

One of the best books on the Waite trumps from an esoteric perspective is The Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages by P. F. Case. Although it is illustrated with the B.O.T.A. trumps (most of which are derived from the Rider-Waite), in effect it also is a commentary on the Waite deck, as Case generally compares the B.O.T.A. and Waite cards in those few instances in which they differ significantly.