Titles on the Camoin (Marseille)

titles on the camion

OK, here I am for the first time in the Marseilles section!!!

Just yesterday I got my first marseilles deck (the Camion version). So far I really like it, but already have a question! LOL

Flipping through the deck for the first time I noticed that the Valet de Deniers has the title on the right hand side of the card while every one of the others have the title on the bottom in a white bar.

Anybody know why this is??????? Other than "just because" LOL

My Grimaud Marseilles is the same way. Traditionally, trump XIII (La Mort) is also unnamed; mine has the title added alongside just as it is in the Valet de Deniers.

I doubt that there is any deep meaning in the omission, at least not on the court card. Traditionally, trump XIII goes unnamed because it was thought unlucky to name Death.

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I agree with Diana that investigation of minutia of detail leads one to deepened understanding of the cards.

With the valet of Coins, even the Conver 1760 deck (from which the Camoin principally derives) has this title woodcut only upon its side.

Historically, this may have been simply that the woodcarver, carving first the image, just did not leave room for the card's title as the image was being carved, and thus had to do so on its side.

It is worth noting that traditionally, the 'first' suit is Coins. If the carving was done in the order of the suits - though I doubt it - then this would have been the very first court card to be carved out. In a relatively non-word focussed world, the card's 'title' near omission would not have been instantly picked up.

Having said all this, I do personally think that the cards very much reflect the spiritual which it reflects. As such, the sense mentioned by Diana would have ensured that this side-titling and dual Coin depiction remained.

I was unaware that any meaning had been attached to the placement of the title on the Page of Coins.

Of course, the Page of Coins is Earth of Earth, so the symbolism of being doubly rooted and having a double suit symbol would be appropriate.

The Grimaud Marseilles that I have has both French and English on it. The Pages are Knaves in that version, and the Page of Coins becomes the Knave of Money. This strikes me as a mildly disconcerting phrase, although I know many people who might be identified by this description.

OK, you all are getting me hooked on the Marseilles decks and I've only had one for, uh.......2 days!! LOL
WOW, this is soo interesting. Of course I have nothing to contribute yet. But I love hearing (uh, reading) you talk about it. LOL
Now that I actually have a deck to look at I might have to go through some of your other threads!

While there is plenty of room for disagreement as to the interpretation of the cards, I think there's a general agreement that as far as esoteric Tarot is concerned, the Marseilles deck is where it all begins. These were the cards that started esoteric interest in the Tarot. The Golden Dawn, the Rider-Waite-Smith, the Thoth, and almost all later decks derive from the Marseilles images as the primary source.