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tarotlyn  tarotlyn is offline
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Thank you! gregory, Debra, and Alta... It is good to know I am not a 'hijacker'
...thanks for making me feel better

ETA: I just noticed that there have been 12,042 views of this thread!


Photography skills
...the camera...well, it is a new 'Kodak Easy Share'...
(note to myself: READ the instruction book! )
I plan on working on that!

Regarding 'gilting on lamination' and ODOR:
I forgot to talk about any odor from the metallic ink.
It is not that strong at all.
ETA: At least 'this' brand is not that strong...can't answer for other brands.
There is a slight smell (not offensive) when it is wet.
The odor, after a few days now, is almost disappeared.

GILTING: Upon a CLOSER LOOK this morning:
(after doing several readings and shuffling a LOT)
I have decided that the gilting on the fronts and backs does come off quite easily
from handling a lot and shuffling. BUT, as I suspected, it does NOT come off
the edges or corners ...(see pictures below taken 'after' a LOT of handling)
The reason I pressed down so deep into the ink pad sponge, was because I wanted
to make sure the edges and the corners were saturated with the ink.
So, the border on the fronts and backs, was just a 'result' of pressing so hard.

The need for:
I think there must be a BETTER way to 'hold' each card while pressing down into
the ink pad because I found that my fingers interfered and messed up the borders
(if you want borders) as I turned the card to gilt each edge and corner.

Taking OFF unwanted gilting:
I do believe that I can take a dry cloth and could just wipe the borders completely
off of the fronts and the backs...leaving the edges and corners gilted perfectly.

I am going to leave the gilting on my fronts and backs of my copy of my Anna k deck
because I like the look even though it is coming off.

I admit I was a little messy in my applications as I tend to get excited and go fast
Surely, one of you here will be able to 'perfect' my messy methods! LOL

To summarize:
1. The gold gilting borders DO come off of the lamination on both the fronts and backs
with lots of handling.
2. The gold gilting does NOT come off of the edges or corners with lots of handling.

Other thoughts:
The deck I just made here had a narrow brown border on the fronts of each card...
and that, I am certain, changed the look of the gold gilted border. To see how
it would look without an original border, see the backs in my photos below.
(but keep in mind, even with a nice even border applied, it WILL come off later)

I don't believe it will ever come off the edges or corners because of the 'thick'
application of the gilting I put on...I can't rub it off...I think it has sunk into the
paper itself.
ETA: Even though sunk into the paper on the edges and corners, it does NOT affect
the image itself, front nor back.

Oh, and I got a little more gilting on my hands, while photographing the cards, today...
BUT...the edges and corners remain STRONGLY GILTED

Re: This deck I made
(the paper I used)
I made a horrible mistake when printing it out eeekkk
I accidentally used a 'greeting card' stock instead of my usual better card stock!
...that was VERY wrong!!!
But when I had discovered it, I had already printed out 8 of 10 pages
(so there was NO turning back then...)... so I find this deck DULL (due to my mistake)
and I don't really like the results that much. I will probably use this deck for
awhile and then do another one of the same with the 'correct' card stock next time !!!

Note: I like to make decks to get them 'smaller' for my small hands.
Plus it is fun and very creative doing this

Photos: BATCH 1
(PHOTOS...2 BATCHES...SEE MY NEXT POST FOR BATCH 2)

Okay...now if you want to look at some photos I took today, (under a neon light)
click the links below...
(I hope they are better than my last photos...I need a photography class )
tarotlyn
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tarotlyn  tarotlyn is offline
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...PHOTOS...BATCH 2...

(imagine this: I am now out of words!!! LOL )
...that will only last for a short time though...Ha Ha

I added a couple photos of 'darker' cards so you could see the gilt better maybe.

tarotlyn
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Top   #102
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gregory  gregory is offline
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I have a self published deck with gold ink on the images and even more on the edges - the edges are actually quite fat, more than the cards - and the cards stick together a bit at the edges - luckily it is majors only, so I just put tissue between each card when I put it away - but do yours stick together AT ALL ?

I used to have a Kodak Easy Share at work. I have to say I wouldn't buy one for myself.... (loves her Fuji...)
Top   #103
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Nope...no sticking AT ALL once dried!!!

...gregory, I think you could probably use this brand ink to 'cover over' the 'sticky' gold
that is on your cards now. It is fairly thin, dies fairly fast, and does NOT stick at all once dried.
AND, since your original gold paint, (that would be 'under' this gold gilt ink),
is sticky, maybe the new gold wouldn't come off once dried to it.

ETA: If you think it would be way to thick to do this, what about trying to scrape
off (lightly) some of that sticky ink and then re-ink? This stuff definitely dries
pretty fast and not sticky when thoroughly dry.

...maybe after applying the new gold, dry your spread out cards for a few days on each side.
I would turn them over at least once the first day...maybe you could use waxed
paper to dry them on ...or?

I also think that if you opt to try this, that you should try 'your' method of applying
the gold on some old or practice cards first.

If you don't want to re-gilt or re-gold your cards, what about trying to dry them
as much as possible, first, by using a small hair dryer set on cool and then maybe laminating them?
(I am assuming they are now presently not laminated)

Oh, I wish I would have thought about using my hair dryer set to cool to dry my gilting ink
and maybe it would have stayed on the borders better Live and learn!

just some thoughts...
tarotlyn
Top   #104
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gregory  gregory is offline
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It is an expensive hand produced one - I might do the hair dryer, but no more...

Thanks .
Top   #105
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You are welcome, gregory ...I wish I could think of something else to help you.
Maybe someone one here has had a similar experience and can help?

tarotlyn
Top   #106
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UPDATE POST...


I keep reaching for my little glittered Anna K. deck. The gold gilting is drawing me so much that
I can't keep my hands or eyes off of it now! It feels like I 'birthed' the deck...LOL Ha Ha
...laminating, etc. is just like that!...giving birth...without all the pain!

The deck has that antiqued look on the sides...and it gives it such a nice classy look and I think
that between glitter, lamination, and the gold gilting on the sides and the fronts...I LOVE IT!!!


Re: lamination separation
Because the cards are smaller (8 to a page), the corners tend NOT to separate...although maybe
that is due to using 'greeting card stock' by mistake

RE: wearing:
The gold gilting did continue to come off on my hands, just slightly, for a couple of days of use,
but now it seems to be pretty stable and no longer coming off and there is still a lot left on the
front laminated borders as well as the back laminated borders...it does stay on very well for the most part...
...but takes a long time to dry.

The next deck I do, I will leave them all spread out separately on waxed paper for at least a week...
...maybe two weeks...one week on each side...until I am sure they are totally dry.
I only waited a day or so...needs to be longer to dry. Note: it was still cold and rainy weather
here when I gilted these. So, maybe doing the gilting in the warm summer months will help
them to dry more thoroughly and dry much faster.

I am honestly thinking of re'doing this deck again and using the correct stock this time! LOL
This deck reads so well for me. This is probably not the right thread, but some of the Anna K.
cards are a little 'darker' and I think I would make those a little lighter when printing them out.
Other than that, they are really a wonder...all those little character people...especially glittered! Ha Ha...
They are so cute and come alive in my readings. I love tarot!!!

Now off to make some more decks!!!...I have just printed out the 'Aquatic' tarot deck...
(after making them 6 to a page) it is free online to print out...and it is gorgeous.
This deck has never been published. It is a RWS clone, for those that don't know. I will
glitter, laminate, and then gold gilt them too

Here are some photos: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/aquatic/
On that page, I think there is a link to the artist's site so you can freely download this pretty deck.
After downloading the deck onto my computer, I took each photo and made it a little darker
and brighter because they are a very soft and pale pastel water colored photo...so pretty!!!
Gilting really changes your cards so much and makes them a pleasure to read with!

HUGS
Happy laminating, etc.
tarotlyn
Top   #107
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tarotlyn  tarotlyn is offline
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aurarcana, I am soooo sorry, I didn't see your post at the time you posted it,
but only saw it tonight...long after (now it is xmas time 2011 )

I will comment on your question anyway, even though it might be too late for anything you
are doing right now.

I think that glue applied to the edges and then wiped off would probably NOT be a good idea
because the glue would probably end up having like a rubbery feeling to it once dried and
would probably cause a 'drag' (or resistance) when shuffling the cards against one another.
I really think that the gilting with the metallic ink as I talked about in previous posts is a
better way to seal the edges. It really works perfectly and it looks great as well! It might
be a little more work applying than just plain glue because of trying to get the gilting on evenly...
...but it is so worth it when you are done!

I have been using my gilted cards a lot since I posted that information, and without any problem at all.
Yes, the gilted metallic ink is the way to go...at least in my experience with it.

Again, sorry for the delay in answering your post.
HUGS
tarotlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by aurarcana View Post
tarotlyn, this is the thread on gilt edging. I'm one of the people that does it often : an experiment at gilt edging.

I'm going to add gilt edges to the first deck I laminate. I didn't think about that being a good sealant! Great idea .

I'm only going to be laminating decks for personal use and I liked the small size of the 5" Xyron, but I can see how the 9" would save me money when it comes to larger rolls of laminate. So far, I only have 2 decks I want and will laminate (so far): my Book of Kaos and my Tarot Nusantara. I have a back-up of the Tarot Nusantara, but not the Kaos. Yes, I'll be laminating the actual decks, both of which are too thin for use.

I'd love to see if there is some kind of bonding agent, like a glue, that I can apply to the edges after I laminate the cards, perhaps with a small paint brush, to further seal the edges. Do you think that would be going overboard? Based on your feedback (which is again, much appreciated ), it seems like the corners are the only major issue with cold lamination, and only after extensive use.
Top   #108
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Chiriku  Chiriku is offline
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Chiriku 
Questions from a first-time laminator


After careful perusal of this thread (thank you, crafty persons), I have come to the following conclusions:

1. Cold lamination's downside is that the adhesive eventually starts to wear off at the corners, which curl up and peel, and that application of glue dots can fix this. Hot lamination's downside is that the finished laminate material tends to be less flexible than cold laminate, and that one cannot cut directly up to the border of the card, because hot lamination only seals the edges of a pouch rather than adhering to the card/paper itself the way cold laminate does.

2. The cold laminating machines mentioned here (Xyron) are manual rollers that require one to churn the handle. There is danger in this in that, if one's energy or attention flags and they slow or speed the churning process, the finished product could have imperfections in it. All of the hot laminating machines I've seen on YouTube appear to be automated; one feeds the pouch in the same way one would feed paper into a fax, and it comes out the other side on its own.

3. For both hot and cold lamination, the corners of the card should be rounded before being laminated. Then you have to round them again once the laminate is attached.

4. Cold laminating machines use a contact paper-like adhesive sheet; hot laminating machines use non-adhesive pouches.

5. Hot lamination requires a pouch of a size that is very close to the item you're laminating. This is because only the edges of hot lamination pouches are sealed, which means one cannot cut close to the border of the card; this would cut away the sealed parts. If the excess laminate is too much owing to having used too large a pouch for the card or paper size, one can't cut away all the excess laminate; they're stuck with it.

6. My cards will be printed several to a page of 8 1/2 by 11 " paper. It is better (safer, faster) to laminate each sheet first, and then cut out the individual cards. Thus, I need a machine that is long enough to accommodate this size of paper. Do you agree?

Judging by YouTube vids, cold lamination seems to be less popular than hot. Alarmingly (for someone with little crafting skill), the one video I found of cold lamination involved manual application of a sticky contact paper/laminate to one side of the paper before rolling it through the machine. This is perilous for someone like me, whose slipshod application will invariably yield a flurry of unsightly air bubbles. Thus, despite my preference for cold lamination (because I can cut right up to the border of the card), it is probably "safer" for me to stick with hot lamination.

I'm considering this fellow here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9iX8FpVvUo

Any input you have on the conclusions I've drawn would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Top   #109
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I just last weekend hot laminated a deck of paper cards that I wanted to make sturdier for use, so I can share some of my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
After careful perusal of this thread (thank you, crafty persons), I have come to the following conclusions:

1. Hot lamination's downside is that the finished laminate material tends to be less flexible than cold laminate, and that one cannot cut directly up to the border of the card, because hot lamination only seals the edges of a pouch rather than adhering to the card/paper itself the way cold laminate does.
This is not exactly true. I laminated 4-6 cards per pouch (standard size, 8"x11" I think, whatever the size of a piece of paper is). On my second pouch, two of the cards shifted inside the pouch before feeding through the laminator and were laminated together while overlapping each other. Disasterous. Since it was said several times in this thread that the hot laminate does not stick to the object, only to itself, I assumed I could cut around the cards and remove them from the pocket inside. Not so. It was obvious fairly quickly when I started to peel the laminate off that it was taking a thin layer of paper with it that would contain most of the ink on the card. So hot laminate definitely does also stick to the object regardless of whatever the consensus theory is.

Lesson learned: either leave a lot of space between cards (only use 4 cards per pouch) or if you are going to use 6, be very careful and hold the cardboard tray level as the laminator feeds it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
2. All of the hot laminating machines I've seen on YouTube appear to be automated; one feeds the pouch in the same way one would feed paper into a fax, and it comes out the other side on its own.
The laminator I used requires use of a cardboard sheath to place the pouch in. This prevents the plastic from melting. These sheaths come with the pouches. People have told me you can laminate without one, probably using a lower heat setting. I would not risk doing so with cards though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
3. For both hot and cold lamination, the corners of the card should be rounded before being laminated. Then you have to round them again once the laminate is attached.
If you want rounded corners on your cards, yes. You can have square corners if you wish. You cannot trim your cards after laminating them as you should keep a small lip of laminate around the egdes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
5. Hot lamination requires a pouch of a size that is very close to the item you're laminating. This is because only the edges of hot lamination pouches are sealed, which means one cannot cut close to the border of the card; this would cut away the sealed parts. If the excess laminate is too much owing to having used too large a pouch for the card or paper size, one can't cut away all the excess laminate; they're stuck with it.
Not true. You can use any size pouch you want. You can easily cut away any excess. I used the full size pouches and laminated 4-6 in each pouch and hand trimmed the laminate with scissors. Had I been more patient, I could have taken them into work and trimmed them with a paper cutter, but I was worried I could more easily screw up with that than with being cautious with a pair of scissors.

It might be easier to use small pouches, but there are not a lot of different sizes out there to choose from. You are most likely going to need to do some trimming no matter what. The small pouches are a lot less cost effective. It's cheaper to laminate several cards in a large pouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
6. My cards will be printed several to a page of 8 1/2 by 11 " paper. It is better (safer, faster) to laminate each sheet first, and then cut out the individual cards. Thus, I need a machine that is long enough to accommodate this size of paper. Do you agree?
If your sheet of cards is a solid sheet (and I can't imagine how it would not be), you definitely need to cut your cards first and then laminate them. If you laminate the whole sheet and then cut the cards, you will have no way of leaving a lip of laminate around the edge of each card. Without an edge of laminate sealed to laminate, the laminate will eventually start to separate with use of the cards. Actually, cutting through laminate and card together might be enough stress to cause the laminate to start to separate right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
Thus, despite my preference for cold lamination (because I can cut right up to the border of the card), it is probably "safer" for me to stick with hot lamination.
I have no experience with cold lamination so I cannot compare. I left very little edges of laminate around the cards, about 1/16". I then ran them through the laminator again to make sure that the very thin edge I left was definitely sealed together. All in all, I am pretty pleased with how my cards came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiriku View Post
I'm considering this fellow here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9iX8FpVvUo

Any input you have on the conclusions I've drawn would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
That one looks reasonable enough to me. If the sheets you buy come with a cardboard sheath though, I'd recommend using it. Or try out not using it on something unimportant first. The bubble/imperfections she pointed out in her pouch are very common in the excess areas of laminate that does not have anything in it. She just needs to trim the pouch around the shape of the artwork. You should not see these on your cards or even close to them.
Top   #110




 

 


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