Stoned in the Five of Pentacles

Abrac

I don't think those are stones to be honest. One's a hole in the snow left by one of his crutches and the other's a footprint. At least that's how they look like to me.

5 of Pentacles
 

cronegoddess54

I don't think those are stones to be honest. One's a hole in the snow left by one of his crutches and the other's a footprint. At least that's how they look like to me.

5 of Pentacles

You could very well be right :)
 

moderndayruth

The man with crutches has a bell around his neck like a leper. In the 15th and 16th Centuries there was a massive leprosy outbreak and lepers were confined in secure units outside the cities. I would guess that he is a leper because of the rags and his lesions which were common with lepers.

In the 18th century, hospitals excluded patients with contagious diseases like leprosy, fever children and stds. These people were eventually housed in institutions specifically designed for them and from which the word 'lock' is derived. Loques is a French word for bandages or rags. The excluded were locked up and restrained and they were called Lock Hospitals.

Prostitutes became the lepers when syphilis replaced leprosy in the 18th century. There was a massive outbreak of syphilis and venereal disease hospitals were set up. The average age for a syphilis infected prostitute was nineteen.

This may be a prostitute and leper neither of which would have been welcomed by a church. A leper would infect the congregation and a prostitute would have been seen as unchristian and unclean.

I got this information from a book called, Prostitution and Victorian Society by Judith R Walkowitz.

:p Looking again at the image, it looks like the snow is falling so heavily that the foot prints of the woman are being covered up and it isn't a stone:D

What an amazing information! Thank you for sharing, Caridwen!

Hmm, lets say that its a stone indeed and that the woman is a prostitute; let's they are passing by the Church - Fives being related to the Hierophant/Pope and thus to dogma among else;
what came to my mind was: "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone" (John 8:7 ),
and , from there, the (hypothetical) meaning of harsh judging/judgement.


Does it make sense?
 

caridwen

caridwen, I like your hypothesis about a leper and a prostitute, but has it been conclusively established that it's a church? I'll admit it gives the impression of a church because of the stained glass (or at least something that looks like stained glass). But there's no Christian symbolism on it and Waite mentions nothing of a church.

I have been thinking a lot about this. I have always assumed this is a church. Churches were the only institutions to have stained glass and by institutions I am harking back to the Hierophant and number Five.

Yet you are totally right and it's blown me away. I love having to look again at something and see it anew.:D

You are challenging a long held assumption regarding the building. It seems obvious that it is a church yet it isn't, not really. It doesn't have biblical iconography unlike for example the four of swords. Again, I could challenge that and say that not all stained glass in churches had biblical depictions, particularly those along the sides of the church which wasn't often seen. Yet Waite does not specifically state that this is a church and that's what cinches it for me.

The fact that you are standing against the tide and challenging the building reminds me of the lines from one of my favourite poems by Robert Frost:

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference"

Re reading that poem sends shivers down my spine. People who challenge majority assumptions, people who stand up and and stand against the tide are often derided and driven out much like these two figures.

They are social pariahs. Especially those who go against the mores of their upbringing. In which case they will be outcasts from their own family as well as their social circle. In fact these people are sometimes referred to as social lepers.

So you challenging a widely held assumption fits very well with this card.:)

eta I also find Waites' use of the word casement interesting. Casement windows open and stained glass windows usually don't. Again I'm thinking of a Church near where I was brought up and it used to have a yellow stained glass window that did open but had no iconography. It was plain yellow like this one and when the light shone into the window would light up the Christening font. I think it may have opened but I can't be sure as I haven't seen it for a long time. The window opens which is again a great metaphor for keeping something in as well as out.
 

caridwen

What an amazing information! Thank you for sharing, Caridwen!

Hmm, lets say that its a stone indeed and that the woman is a prostitute; let's they are passing by the Church - Fives being related to the Hierophant/Pope and thus to dogma among else;
what came to my mind was: "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone" (John 8:7 ),
and , from there, the (hypothetical) meaning of harsh judging/judgement.


Does it make sense?

It is interesting isn't it:)

For me the church symbolism does this very neatly. Any biblical story about being cast out or casting others out would go well with this card. If you simply glance at the bible there are plenty of parables and sayings about not judgeing, loving your neighbour and defending the rights of the poor and needy.

This is the weakness of the Hierophant and what he represents. This card is a challenge to those more willing to cast others out and close themselves in than step outside and face the cold and challenges of others' reality.

The warmly lit window for me speaks of a place of warmth and comfort and the heavy snow and sickness and poverty outside is simply an analogy. The church should be about helping those in most need but a church is made up of its members and if they are not willing to step outside their comfort zone and bring the poor, helpless and needy inside or conversely cast them out, then we have a spiritual void. Society becomes the sickness. Society becomes the leper infecting others with selfish malady.

The rich West is sick on its own gluttony whilst it rapes and plunders the wealth of others in order to force feed itself. We buy cheap Chinese goods that are cheap soley because those making them have no human rights and employ children. We are content with our expensive mobile phones that run on cassiterite which is mined in the Congo currently a no go area because of civil war funded by the West and so it goes on. The exploited are those two figures and the exploiters sit within the confines of their warmly lit sanctuary.
 

caridwen

I don't think those are stones to be honest. One's a hole in the snow left by one of his crutches and the other's a footprint. At least that's how they look like to me.

5 of Pentacles

I also agree. It looks as though the footprint is being covered by heavy snowfall.:)
 

Abrac

I'm undecided at this point whether it's a church or not. caridwen, your point about windows in churches not necessarily having Biblical scenes is well-taken. There doesn't seem to be enough conclusive evidence one way or the other. It's whatever it means to each person I guess.

Edit: In the end it may not matter. Since Waite focused on the casement itself, that seems like a good place look for meaning. There are two pieces of glass missing. Could that be a metaphor? Just as the glass has been neglected and lost, the two beggars, because of their rank, have been neglected and forgotten by society. Perhaps at one time they were "beautiful," like the glass. :)
 

caridwen

I'm undecided at this point whether it's a church or not. caridwen, your point about windows in churches not necessarily having Biblical scenes is well-taken. There doesn't seem to be enough conclusive evidence one way or the other. It's whatever it means to each person I guess.

Edit: In the end it may not matter. Since Waite focused on the casement itself, that seems like a good place look for meaning. There are two pieces of glass missing. Could that be a metaphor? Just as the glass has been neglected and lost, the two beggars, because of their rank, have been neglected and forgotten by society. Perhaps at one time they were "beautiful," like the glass. :)

I hadn't noticed the broken glass. I assumed that the grey areas were castles on either side of the glass. The formation of the pentacles is the kabbalah association which is Geburah in the world of Assiah, strife in the material world. Waite says, "The card foretells material trouble above all, whether in the form illustrated--that is, destitution--or otherwise."

It could mean, (if the glass is missing) that the church is also in need of money. Stained glass was very expensive so if it got broken it would cost a lot to replace. Maybe the grey area behind it is wood or something to keep the snow out.

Maybe these two unfortunates have been cast out because the church cannot afford to keep them any longer.
 

moderndayruth

Sometimes i really wish there was a LIKE button here... :p
 

Teheuti

The design in the window (whatever the building is) seems to me to be an anchor, which was used as an early Christian symbol. It generally signifies safety and the hope of salvation. "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure." (Hebrews 6:17)

In the 3rd degree of Freemasonry it represents "the well grounded hope and well spent life." In the 1700's there was a masonic organization (co-masonry) known as "the order of the knights and ladies of the anchor."

Casement windows were developed in the middle ages and therefore harkened back to olden times before sash windows came in. Many churches that I know of have casement windows. I remember the long poles with hooks used to open and close them to let in air.

A mendicant often practices voluntary begging as part of their spiritual practice. This reminds me of the term, "voluntary simplicity" used at Stanford University for those of well-educated, middle-class backgrounds who chose to live "on the land" (without plumbing, etc.) in the late 60s and 70s.

I try to always keep the voluntary possibilities of this card in mind, although the card can sometimes simply signify material troubles.

I agree about the leper. Hadn't thought of the parallel idea of the prostitute - like that!

What I find most interesting is the story that a querent tells about the card. What an individual sees can vary widely. Most assume it is a church and warm & welcoming inside, but a surprising number of people feel they aren't interested in going in because it means accepting the attitudes of those on the inside. They're rather stay out in the cold until they can find another haven.