When was Jesus born?

August or September of what year?

Fulgour, it is my understanding that a census was taken only periodically, like once a decade. Do you have any idea what year the census was conducted in that period? Dave.

Decree of Augustus

Astrology is an interpretive study for me, mostly intuitive,
so my view that Jesus was born in the sign of Virgo is felt.
According to the chronology in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"As Herod killed the children up to two years old, in order to destroy the new born King of the Jews, we are led to believe that Jesus may have been born A.U.C. 747, 748, 749. The enrolment under Cyrinus mentioned by St. Luke in connection with the nativity of Jesus Christ, and the remarkable astronomical conjunction of Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn in Pisces, in the spring of A.U.C. 748, will not lead us to any more definite result."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08377a.htm

In his book 'Signs for a Messiah' Rollan McCleary claims that Jesus was born at 1:35 pm LMT on September 6th, 6 BCE in Bethlehem

Interesting features of this chart are the triple conjunction of Sun, Pluto and Venus in Virgo in the ninth. The Sun ruler, Mercury is conjunct the MC and in close opposition to Saturn on the IC. Mercury is also in mutual reception with Venus.

Interesting counterpoints here, what is his career ? - to be the Messenger of God (Mercury) but also to bring out the feminine side of the divine? At one level Saturn, the father sits on the IC, the house of the father. At another level Saturn could be seen as the devil and the opposition with Mercury shows Mercury, the most elevated planet standing (triumphing??) over the devil.

There is a Sagittarius Ascendant, thus giving Jupiter (King of the Gods) an important role and the Moon is in Gemini, angular on the Descendant.

A very interesting chart, and I'd like to read the book but I have to say that with not a hint of reliable data (the story of the nativity being pure invention) speculation depends much on how we see 'jesus' rather than on when Jesus was actually born. If this sounds dismissive, there's a good section in Geoffrey Cornelius' Nature of Astrology' which suggests that sometimes even the 'wrong' birth data can yield accurate knowledge.

Another possibility?

I've found two dates when Jupiter conjuncted Saturn, but no date where Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were all conjunct -- a super star in terms of drawing the attention of astrologers of that date. However, there is a date where some interesting things are happening.

Feb. 5, 5 BCE, at 7:20 PM, Bethleham. In this chart we find:
1) The Sun has set, bringing night to the sky. On the western horizon lies Mars at 1 Pisces, Saturn at 19 Pisces, Jupiter at 25 Pisces. All of this in one sign, all of this following the prior Jupiter-Saturn actual conjunctions.

2) The Moon rising at 2-32 Virgo above the ASC angle at 6 Virgo. Pluto, although unknown at that time, at 11 Virgo.

3) Mercury and Venus would be well below the horizon and not visible except in the mornings. Only Mars, Jupiter and Saturn would be visible at sun set in the west with Moon rising in the East, an important time of the day.

In prior Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions, Mars was not anywhere near them. So, only those two planets (as a conjunction) could be used as the major sky significator. Mars wasn't a player.

IN SUMMARY, it appears that the Fall period, around Sept 6th or Nov 15th of 6 BCE are possibilities IF the bright star was indeed the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. It appears that the following spring around Feb. 5th 5BCE is the only period where the three planets Mars-Jupiter-Saturn could be considered by the ancients as being in a sign conjunction and also visible following sunset when viewing was most optimal -- plus the Moon was rising in the east. The horizon played a big role in marking important dates as fixed stars and planets appeared and disappeared.

Dave.

A question . . .

For Minderwiz . . .
Relative to the Sept. 6th, 6 BCE at 1:35 PM chart you mentioned. I have run the chart and have found Sun (10-58 Virgo) conjunct Pluto (10-01 Virgo), with Mercury closest these two at 1 Libra and Venus at 27 Libra. Mercury is close to the MC (7-14 Libra).

Jupiter (20-50 Pisces) is near/conjunct Saturn (18-44 Pisces) in a wide opposition to Sun/Pluto. A big problem with equating any of these charts to the birth legends is that "conjunctions" were sometimes loosely stated or even applied to any planets in the same sign. They weren't always conjunct within a tight orb.

Anyways, we have a span of time when Jupiter and Saturn played tag with each other, and a shorter span of time (in the late winter of 5 BCE) when Mars was also close to that duo. Unless we get some scholarly input that promotes or demotes certain facts and events/dates, then these charts are the closest we can develop. If anyone wants either of these three charts in terms of the data, just let me know here or PM me and I'll post or send that data. Dave.

Umbrae said:

My only input – They were on their way to ‘pay taxes’/ do the census thing.

Taxes in an agrarian society are paid after the harvest – when people have money to pay them. I personally think Joseph Junior was a Scorpio. October is about right.

After about October, it’s too cold for sheep to be in the hills. I think that lambs are a latter addition to make the shepherds cute.

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I don't presume to know Jack about Astrology, but there was a BBC program about the birth of Jesus done several years ago. Historians think He was born about May (lambing time) in 7 BC. (BC=Before Christ) There was a big conjuction of Jupiter, Saturn, etc at a close point in space at that time, and they think that drew the 3 Kings in. AD, BTW as Hudson Grey said, is Anno Domino, Year of Our Lord-indicating that all time (at that point forward) is during the reign of Jesus. As for years, they are numbered year 1 BC, then year 1 AD, there IS NO year zero, so the new Millenium started in 2001, not 2000.

Umbrae said:

After about October, it’s too cold for sheep to be in the hills. I think that lambs are a latter addition to make the shepherds cute.

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Shepherds do not generally watch their flocks by night, unless lambing is occuring, or to guard against something else; maybe hungry travelers during a mass census? Also, the symbolism of shepherds, lambing and the lamb of god being born was being evoked.

adam_atom said:

The term "AD" refers to after his death...

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Actually AD refers to Anno Domini. This link discusses the AD calendar, and other calendar systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini Plus why there's actually no year zero; we jump from 1 BC to 1 AD.

Year 1 was postulated as the year of Jesus' birth, by a monk in the 6th Century AD after Jesus' life, and was first used as a dating system in the 7th Century. That's one reason Biblical scholars give for the year being obviously off by a few.

I've encountered information that related Jesus to being born of the sign of Leo or perhaps Virgo, the onset of the harvest season I believe. That would depend of course on the harvest of that year and if there was a drought or not.

In regards to the three wise men and the sheep, I've heard an interesting theory that neither of these things actually happened. The shepards story was added by one author to appeal to the poor community he preached to, the wise men were added by another author as he preached to a wealthy community.

I'm more curious about why there should be any special signs in the sky to announce the birth of Jesus (ducks for cover)? Granted a big event (!), but why could it not have occured on a boring old regular day, with not much else going on?

Or perhaps it could be an event outside the ability of our own solar system's planets to describe...

I read a facinating novel once, in which God's decision to incarnate was pretty much a spur of the moment one. I quite like that idea for some reason.