Late Ascendant horary chart

Ronia

Minderwiz said:
In a court case, your lawyer is indeed second house (assuming you take the first). Similarly the other person's lawyer would take the eighth. However out of court, where you are consulting a lawyer for legal advice and representation, he or she is ninth house. They are offering professional services on a matter that may not come to court. Now if your case is underway, that's a different matter and he's second house. But if your case is underway, then his behaviour is beyond 'unacceptable' and into professional negligence.

So what matters here is the situation the lawyer is in. As you are waiting to here from him, rather than him acting for you in court (as far as the question is concerned) , I took his role as that of a professional adviser. If you had asked what will be the outcome of the case, then he's definitely second house.

OK, that's what I assumed, that it mattered if it was about a court case or just counselling, thank you for explaining. We are still at the counselling point except if my ex has begun a court case which I don't know about yet. As far as I know, we are at negotiation point still.

Minderwiz said:
Were you thinking of him as primarily someone you know or as your lawyer. In a question that runs, 'Will my sister, Anna X, do so and so' I take the relationship of sister to override the fact that the person is named and I use the third. Similarly for 'my friend Anna' I would use the eleventh The relationship is clear.

Now in this case if your question was 'will X respond' it's not so obvious. If I'd been taking the question, I would want to know who X was and in what capacity he was acting before I chose the relevant house for the quesited. You of course knew who he was and in what capacity he was acting. Personally, I'd have used the ninth as that is more fitting to his role in the context of the question. However I can see why you went for the seventh.

I definitely asked "Will ... respond by the end of the week". Of course, I know he is my lawyer but he is so close to me in age that I somehow don't really relate to him as some kind of authority. Not that I disrespect him, on the contrary, but he feels kind of homey, friendly even. I don't mind using the 9th, in fact the first time I cast a chart re: all this mess I used the 9th. True, this will make the sextile Venus-Mars disappear but it was a bit wobbly anyways with the Moon approaching first and the Sun squaring at the time of perfection.

Minderwiz said:
Quite right. I did say that in my chart Saturn was in the eighth, but when I was moving on to discuss Saturn's ruler (a possible helper, I did say fifth. I meant Jupiter, Saturn's ruler was in the fifth. Jupiter being a natural significator of the law and being in the house of children.

I'm getting a bit lost here. I thought we were looking at Jupiter as possible mentor for him or advisor (he has an older mentor in the firm, I first met with the older guy but couldn't afford him at all, he is a legend here). However, the older guy is there, why wouldn't mine get an advice from him? He can do that anytime. I mean, this is not a situation where my lawyer is lacking support or advice to prevent him from responding to me...

Minderwiz said:
Like you, earlier in the thread, I was thinking of something else when I typed the sign name LOL

I quite understand. Happens to me all the time! LOL

Minderwiz said:
Yes, that is very odd behaviour, as I said above it's almost verging on professional negligence (or it would be if he now appeared in court without addressing your issues). It's almost as though he was deliberately choosing not to communicate with you - which might possibly explain the late ascendant, because the question was moot. I think you really need a face to face meeting with him and PDQ.

I don't know what to think. I don't want to sound and behave crazy but yes, it seems he is offended by me disagreeing with him and it's quite childish really. I'm trying to calm down. It's pretty clear at this point a response may not come by the end of the day today and very doubtfully he will work on the weekend... I guess the answer of this chart will be no but I'll wait till Sunday to update the thread. I'll have to come up with a strategy for next week. If I should approach the assistant again or e-mail him and be a bit tougher.

Minderwiz said:
I can see that as a risk but he has to communicate with you and provide some reason. An argument over minor matters is not acceptable. He's your employee, at least in terms of the case, his duty is to follow your instructions, unless you put him in a position where he would have to act illegally or unprofessionally. Of course it's his duty to give you the best advice he can, but you can insist that he acts in a particular way or you fire him, not the other way around.

There's definitely something odd going on.

Yes. It is all very odd. I know he is my employee but he may make me fire him if he doesn't communicate or fails to address my issues properly. Unfortunately, he is a very very good lawyer from an excellent firm at a reasonable price and that's not something I can easily get here. I need to find a way to solve this in a manner which will not leave me without his services or expertise or best intentions.

Minderwiz said:
Yes, it should. Using Regiomontanus, it's your significator, Venus that's in the eighth. It does have some essential dignity, ruling the Earth triplicity by day but it's in an ineffective place. You could well argue that describes your situation accurately, as from the information given so far, you appear to be ineffective in getting him to get off his backside and do his job.

Yes, all was well until I disagreed with him. Now I definitely feel powerless.

Minderwiz said:
Saturn is still Peregrine though in an effective house. The dependency on help though still holds. He's in a position to do something (communicate with you) but might not be able to get his act together - he still might need help about the law and Saturn's ruler, Jupiter is still in the house of children.

Yes but what does the help have to do with children? I mean, the help is there for him, the older guy. He only needs to go next door. The matter began with my ex's intentions towards my son but in this particular chart... the 5th and Jupiter as help for my lawyer should mean something else. May be he is in love and absent minded. LOL

Ronia

Will he fire me?

As a follow up on the conversation here, I cast a chart on my concerns he may withdraw as my lawyer. i asked "Will... choose to remain my lawyer?" It was cast on January 29 at 16:32 in Toronto. Now, that's funny because this one has less than a degree ascendant in Leo. It's an interesting chart though, considering the situation. First of all, such an early ascendant may mean that much is still to happen and this time I can believe it but I want to know what. By the way, this ascendant is on my natal Saturn in the 7th and separating from my natal Moon but in another sign. I'd say ti is on my natal Saturn, within 2 degrees applying conjunction. My issues with all kinds of authorities are no news to me. LOL

Minderwiz, in this case, I took the 7th again, because I felt the question was more about my personal concerns about my personal success if he remains my lawyer than about his profession. Do you think that's correct? Interestingly enough, the Sun (me, in detriment) will aspect L7 (Saturn) and L10 (Mars) at the same time but not L9 (Jupiter). Not so positive as the aspect to L10, Mars, will be a square. But the aspect to Saturn, L7, will be a sextile (again a sextile L1/L7) as in the previous chart) with mutual reception! domicile/triplicity, and the Sun is ruled by Saturn, he will receive it. I truly hope the whole thing is a confusion which clears soon and we succeed in this endeavour, which is so important to me. If he is L7, all looks well, promising at least. But if he is L9... then not so good. Jupiter doesn't have any chance to meet the Sun soon or before the Sun leaves the sign. The Moon will not aspect Jupiter while in Libra either (but she exalts Saturn). Jupiter is in the 3rd which is appropriate but without an aspect, means little.

Saturn is in the 5th and again, is he in love and absent minded? There are some parallels between the two charts. Or is it a sign for being childish?

To add to the picture, this is the first time I have a chart with Moon conjunct the IC! And it's very confusing. It's the end of the matter. The Moon is my co-significator and signifies the process itself, so conjunct the IC would mean it's a done deal. BUT there is again a square with L3, this time Mercury. The Moon separated from a sextile with Saturn and is now minutes from perfecting the square to Mercury. It basically means he communicated but to whom? There is no aspect Mercury/Sun! Mercury has triplicity in Libra and will receive the Moon but the chain of events doesn't ring true to me here ... Mercury's next aspect is trine to Jupiter, L9. But I somehow don't see him as L9. In any case there is no return aspect to me, the Sun. But i have the feeling I'm missing something here.

There are upcoming aspects between my significator and L7 significator, there was sn aspectbetween the Moon and L7, there is a partial aspect between the Moon and L3, Moon is on the IC, exalting Saturn, ruled by Venus who is not in a terrible shape in Capricorn (and is accidentally ruled by Saturn). So, there are aspects between the participants, part of them squares, plus a conjunction of the Moon with the IC but this is very confusing for me. I've never had a chart with such a conjunction and I don't know what to do with it. From what I know it doesn't bode well for me, even more so with the Moon being L12.

My optimistic take on this chart is the very early ascendant shows there is more to come before a decision is made, I will have a chance and get in touch with him and hopefully communicate or with the assistant (Moon to L3 square) but it won't be easy (square) or it will all resolve smoothly (trine to Saturn) after some delays (square). If he is L7 as I think he should behere, there is a chance he will remain my lawyer.the communication though seems complicated.

Still, I'm baffled by the Moon/IC conjunction!

Minderwiz

Ronia said:
I'm getting a bit lost here. I thought we were looking at Jupiter as possible mentor for him or advisor (he has an older mentor in the firm, I first met with the older guy but couldn't afford him at all, he is a legend here). However, the older guy is there, why wouldn't mine get an advice from him? He can do that anytime. I mean, this is not a situation where my lawyer is lacking support or advice to prevent him from responding to me...

It might be a wider symbolism than simply the old guy at his firm. Jupiter might signify the law or the legal system in general. The problem here is that I'm not a party to all the information, so I end up speculating, which isn't usually all that good. So one possible speculation, is that he's hit a point of law that he doesn't know the answer to or his mentor doesn't know the answer to. Therefore he's trying to resolve the issue through checking precedents, etc. But that's simply speculation.

Ronia said:
I don't know what to think. I don't want to sound and behave crazy but yes, it seems he is offended by me disagreeing with him and it's quite childish really. I'm trying to calm down. It's pretty clear at this point a response may not come by the end of the day today and very doubtfully he will work on the weekend... I guess the answer of this chart will be no but I'll wait till Sunday to update the thread. I'll have to come up with a strategy for next week. If I should approach the assistant again or e-mail him and be a bit tougher.

The best advice I can give is to seek a quick meeting, either telephone of in person, assuming still no reply by Monday.

An yes, you need to resolve this in as amicable way as possible. Good lawyers that are reasonably priced are hard to find.

Ronia said:
Yes but what does the help have to do with children? I mean, the help is there for him, the older guy. He only needs to go next door. The matter began with my ex's intentions towards my son but in this particular chart... the 5th and Jupiter as help for my lawyer should mean something else. May be he is in love and absent minded. LOL

It only has to do with children if the matter is pertinent to your dispute with your ex over his right to take your son out of the country (I think that's what you said some time ago but I'm going from memory). In that case the significance of Jupiter, representing the law being in the house of children, in a question that relates to a possible action involving a child becomes highly relevant.

The same point might be emphasised in your second chart where the Lawyer's significator is in the fifth and happens to be Saturn (which ruled the lawyer in your previous horary (assuming he takes the ninth).

Ronia

Update

At this point I can safely say that the chart with the late ascendant didn't produce a response. if a response will come later than the end of this week and that's what the square to Venus means, is yet to be seen.

Minderwiz, I will try a meeting and will post an update on the second chart - if he is still my lawyer.

Ronia

Update

He responded today, about a week after the chart was cast. I had to call his assistant twice meanwhile. He has been very ill. And he is still my lawyer, hasn't quit yet.

I also think my instinct to use the 7th was correct as Mars is in the 6th, I use Regiomontanus. Regardless if we look it as 6th or his 12th, he was so ill, he apparently went to hospital. Both health issues and hospital were involved. I think of the 9th more as legal system and lawyers in general. My own lawyer who knows more about me than most people around me have ever known is definitwly more like 7th house to me. Like a partner because we are actually partners in an endeavour.