"House of God" = Meteorites?

Elven said:

Sorry - Im not meaning to distrupt the thread - but just to add witness to some of the lore pertaining to 'meteorite' - it has happened too many times for me to think this is a mere coincidence - I am sceptical until its shoved in my face! I had no idea when i purchased it. I would love to read more about these magnetic pieces - great thread.
I cant wait to get the Vieville deck - it will sing to me

Blessings
Elven

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OMG Elven, I would be turned off by them too! Funny, they seem to have a history of being a bridge to the god/s, but I'm not so sure I would want one either!

best,
robert

Hi Robert- sorry I was not clear. I had the name Baitullah and no notes so I looked up the Baitullah on the web.
I will now search out my notes and try and make them cohesive.
From the book on Middle Eastern Mythology..
"Allah was the supreme, though not sole deity in Arabia before the arrival of Islam. He lived together with other deities in the heavens and was said to have created the Earth and bestowed water on it. In pre islamic times, animism was prevalent throughout Arabia, and trees were worshipped and certain stones were believed to contain sacred power. They were housed in stone towers called Baitullah. The Prophet Muhammad adopted Allah as the one true God...."
Now I will go search out my notes..
~Rosanne

JMD, that picture you posted back in the start of the thread (Mediaeval painting circa 1456), the meteorites look like zods.

Is that what zods are supposed to be that are depicted on the Moon and Sun cards? More meteorites?

HudsonGray said:

JMD, that picture you posted back in the start of the thread (Mediaeval painting circa 1456), the meteorites look like zods.

Is that what zods are supposed to be that are depicted on the Moon and Sun cards? More meteorites?

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Hmm. Good question. I don't know if it gets us any further, but I just fished out my Vandenborre Bacchus Tarot - okay, not exactly a Marseille - and on that, the things in the sky in the "La Foudre" (Lightning) card are in fact very distinctly different from those in the next four - Star-Judgement. In La Foudre, they are red arrows pointing upwards, in the other cards they are either stars (though drawn in two distinct ways) or objects rather like leaves.

Sorry - no scanner right now (we have had some bad system crashes - don't ask) but maybe someone else would show some of these cards if it seems relevant enough?

Most interesting Baba- is lightening the Tower? Because in the Conver It looks to me as if the balls are coming from within the Tower - not raining down like the so called 'dew drops' on Le Soleil or La Lune. I never figured why some think them drops when they are upside down. They look like little comets. ~Rosanne

The Temple of Jerusalem

le pendu said:

Is it possible that the name "La Maison Dieu" is a literal translation of "Bethel"?

If so, what is the Bethel being depicted? Is it perhaps a reference not to the actual tower itself, but a reference to meteorites?

And if meteorites, is it a reference to the large flaming object in the upper portion of the cards? Or is it to the circular objects along the side? Or Both?

And what of the tower? I can't find any connection between Bethel and a tower. So why show the tower at all?

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I go back to some of Robert's original questions, adding more questions and partially going off-topic, I am afraid

That the meaning of Bethel is "the house of God" is explicitly stated in the Bible (Genesis 28:17/28:19).
The term Bethel occurs many times in the Bible (more than 60), and generally seems to be a reference to a village (and a temple) with that name.
The expression "house of God" also appears many times (more than 80). It would be interesting to know what is the hebraic expression used, for instance, in the Genesis.

It seems that meteorites were used in the building of temples (Rosanne). This is similar to Genesis:
Since the "magical" stone was made a pillar of the temple, the temple actually became a single thing with the stone. The Tower (or temple) and the Meteorite are (made to be) the same thing.
Is it possible that the difference between "the actual tower itself" and the meteorite is not so deep?

Plinius says that meteorites falling at daytime were thought to be pieces of the Sun. Can this explain why the Tower seems to be striken by the Sun.

The expression "house of God" in the Bible often is a reference to the Temple of Jerusalem. The destruction of the temple in 70 CE is the most famous destruction of a building in history. Possibly someone (in Marseille?) associated the image of the Tarot card to this famous historical episode?

Actually, early cards such as Grigonneur do not represent a Tower, but something more similar to a castle. If TdM engravers associated the card to the Temple of Jerusalem, why did they represent a tower instead of a more conventional temple?

What is the earliest association of "Maison Dieu" with the Tower card?
Which is the first tower card in which a proper tower is present?

Marco

Very interesting thread....I am asking more questions as well.

Is there any significance to the difference in titles from

Maison de Dieu which would seem to translate from French more to
"house of God" as opposed to Maison Dieu which could be translated as
"godhouse?"

I am not aware of where these different titles appear or when they appeared, but I do remember a thread in another forum discussing the concept of a "godhouse" as opposed to a "house of god"....with a godhouse being more of a place of respite, where those who are weary or sick or tired could go and rest within until ready to come forth or ready to be enlightened.

Certainly, if there were meteor showers, the populace would seek a place of safety or respite or shelter....

I am just thinking outloud, but I like the idea of thinking on "meteorites" or meteor showers for this card....

When we have natural phenemon that cause great upheaval...hurricanes, earthquakes....we have times in which people must seek safety and times which "wake up" the populace from the complacency of what has become accepted as natural to everyday life...i.e., that things in our world can be counted on and that we are safe.

A search brought up this interesting post connecting baetylus to "house of god" ....also refers to China and and a possible Stone Age there....stone tools or implements were found on the ground following a thunderstorm....interesting connection given the lightening we see in some Tower Cards.

http://www.jjkent.com/articles/China-prehistoric-meteorites.htm

terri

Rosanne said:

Most interesting Baba- is lightening the Tower? Because in the Conver It looks to me as if the balls are coming from within the Tower - not raining down like the so called 'dew drops' on Le Soleil or La Lune. I never figured why some think them drops when they are upside down. They look like little comets. ~Rosanne

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Hi Roseanne, yes La Foudre is the equivalent of The Tower. It shows a similar picture of a man under a tree - plus animals that may be sheep (though one is very odd indeed). Drat - I wish I had a working scanner right now. When I do have I'll post a scan. The things dropping down look more like depictions of tongues of flame - although this is hard to be sure of. They aren't round, but sort of roughly arrow-shaped.

By the way, I find it interesting that when the card is titled 'The Lightning", then we see a more obvious progression - Lightning, Star, Moon, Sun - all lights in the sky but each one more important than that which goes before - well perhaps. Again, I feel I need to read and think about this a lot more. Very good thread though.

This is an interesting website "summary" of meteorite legends....

http://www.alaska.net/~meteor/legend.htm

good omens, warning of death...a personal star which falls upon one's death wishing you may rest in peace or that God will guide you ...

Thank you Robert for this thread.....somehow it seems to be a piece of the "web" to tie together the elements of the imagery of the Maison Dieu card.

I have printed the thread so I can reread the references

terri

Here is a picture of the Vandenborre. I know it isn't quite a Marseille but I hope it's relevant to the discussion. You'll see that the objects in the sky are drawn so as to be distinctly different on each card (the difference between the red objects on the Foudre and Soleil cards is btw even more obvious when you see them in reality).

http://www.magic-realist.com/BLOG/Vandenborre.jpg

Edited to add - sorry, just remembered to point out the "star" that seems to have fallen on to the ground in La Lune. Could this perhaps be a fallen meteorite? If not, is there a better explanation for this grounded star?