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Calculating Quint Card (particularly reducing)

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Maru  Maru is offline
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Calculating Quint Card (particularly reducing)


Hey guys. I just started using Quint cards mainly for fun. I've done a lot of searching, but the explanation(s) are less clear on how reduction works.

I understand you are supposed to add up Ace-10 cards and majors, but leave out the courts... well, not necessarily leave out courts, but it makes sense.

So for example, this is how I have been calculating so far...

Ace of Swords, 8 of Wands, Heirophant, Queen of Cups = 1 + 8 + 5 + 0 = 14 (1+4) = Card 5 (Heirophant)

The part I am confused about is when you have to reduce to get a number in-between 1-22.

So say you get 999 as the total after you add up the cards... how do you reduce to get a number below or equal to 22? Just keep removing digits at the end? i.e. remove the two 9's at the end and it will be a single 9... so Hermit?

Just a little bit of clarification on that last part would be helpful. Thanks!

(I hope this is the right section )
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This is the usual way: 999 = 9+9+9 = 27 = 2 + 7 = 9. You can also "cast out nines" by continuously subtracting 9 until you get below 22, but with a number that big it would take quite a few iterations. The only place I've ever seen it described is in one of Hajo Banzhaf's books on the Thoth tarot, and there wasn't very much detail. I always include the court cards (number 11 through 14) because I think all the cards on the table should be included in the calculation, and can't see a good reason to disqualify them. As the last four cards in a suit, they have an implied number.

The other thing I do is subtract reversed card values so I don't have to change the Fool to 22. You can't get to zero with normal reduction, so common practice is to make the Fool 22. But I prefer not to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post
Hey guys. I just started using Quint cards mainly for fun. I've done a lot of searching, but the explanation(s) are less clear on how reduction works.

I understand you are supposed to add up Ace-10 cards and majors, but leave out the courts... well, not necessarily leave out courts, but it makes sense.

So for example, this is how I have been calculating so far...

Ace of Swords, 8 of Wands, Heirophant, Queen of Cups = 1 + 8 + 5 + 0 = 14 (1+4) = Card 5 (Heirophant)

The part I am confused about is when you have to reduce to get a number in-between 1-22.

So say you get 999... how do you reduce to get a number below or equal to 22? Just keep removing digits at the end? i.e. remove the two 9's at the end and it will be a single 9... so Hermit?

Just a little bit of clarification on that last part would be helpful. Thanks!

(I hope this is the right section )
I would reduce everything above 22 to 2 digits, and stop reducing at 22. The Fool is 22. But, that is just the way I do it....nothing official.
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Maru  Maru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
This is the usual way: 999 = 9+9+9 = 27 = 2 + 7 = 9.
This makes sense! Lemme try so I am sure I am understanding correctly...

For example, a total of 9959 after adding up cards (not realistic I know)...

Cards adding up to 9959 = 9 + 9 + 5 + 9 = 32 = 3 + 2 = 5 (Heirophant)

... so that would be a one method to reduce a larger than 22 number?

Quote:
You can also "cast out nines" by continuously subtracting 9 until you get below 22, but with a number that big it would take quite a few iterations.
Good thing I keep a TI83. Very handy for design work and making grids... and apparently Tarot math problems like these ...

Quote:
The only place I've ever seen it described is in one of Hajo Banzhaf's books on the Thoth tarot, and there wasn't very much detail. I always include the court cards (number 11 through 14) because I think all the cards on the table should be included in the calculation, and can't see a good reason to disqualify them. As the last four cards in a suit, they have an implied number.
Yes, I'm experimenting without courts to see which feels better for me. It doesn't seem like either option would be problematic though. In fact, depending on which cards you add within a spread, it tells a different story I think...

Quote:
The other thing I do is subtract reversed card values so I don't have to change the Fool to 22. You can't get to zero with normal reduction, so common practice is to make the Fool 22. But I prefer not to.
Is this with reduction or just how you add up cards in general? So in spreads where all cards are reversed, you may deduce the quint is Fool? Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel View Post
I would reduce everything above 22 to 2 digits, and stop reducing at 22. The Fool is 22. But, that is just the way I do it....nothing official.
That's the part I am not understanding though, how do you reduce? I guess people have different practices regarding reduction itself? Most threads I could find only said "reduce the number" (without explanation of their method) or it didn't explain it well enough for me to understand what the common practice(s) are/were...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post
This makes sense! Lemme try so I am sure I am understanding correctly...

For example, a total of 9959 after adding up cards (not realistic I know)...

Cards adding up to 9959 = 9 + 9 + 5 + 9 = 32 = 3 + 2 = 5 (Heirophant)

... so that would be a one method to reduce a larger than 22 number?
Yes, that's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post
Yes, I'm experimenting without courts to see which feels better for me. It doesn't seem like either option would be problematic though. In fact, depending on which cards you add within a spread, it tells a different story I think...
I sometimes do it both ways and see which one makes the most sense within the context of the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post
Is this with reduction or just how you add up cards in general? So in spreads where all cards are reversed, you may deduce the quint is Fool? Interesting.
I treat reversed cards as negative numbers and subtract instead of adding them when doing the calculation. It would only give the Fool if the math came out to 0. If it came out to a negative number, it would be a reversed quint card. A spread that was all reversed would give you a reversed quint, not the Fool.
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I add them up and I don't assign numbers where they don't already exist. I also don't do the negative number thing, with reversals, because I don't use reversals. If I'm commenting on someone else's reading that did use reversals, I still don't do the negative numbers thing. If we must introduce algebra into the tarot, then my stance is that I use the absolute value ( |x| ) of a numbered card when calculating the quint of a spread.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post
Hey guys. I just started using Quint cards mainly for fun. I've done a lot of searching, but the explanation(s) are less clear on how reduction works.

I understand you are supposed to add up Ace-10 cards and majors, but leave out the courts... well, not necessarily leave out courts, but it makes sense.

So for example, this is how I have been calculating so far...

Ace of Swords, 8 of Wands, Heirophant, Queen of Cups = 1 + 8 + 5 + 0 = 14 (1+4) = Card 5 (Heirophant)

The part I am confused about is when you have to reduce to get a number in-between 1-22.

So say you get 999 as the total after you add up the cards... how do you reduce to get a number below or equal to 22? Just keep removing digits at the end? i.e. remove the two 9's at the end and it will be a single 9... so Hermit?

Just a little bit of clarification on that last part would be helpful. Thanks!

(I hope this is the right section )
Hi, for me 14 would be temperance. I wouldn't reduce 14 into 1+4. Instead, I would wait until I reached a number greater than 21 to begin adding double digit numbers. Otherwise, when would you ever arrive at temperance?

I also count reversals as negative numbers (most of the time).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maru View Post

That's the part I am not understanding though, how do you reduce? I guess people have different practices regarding reduction itself? Most threads I could find only said "reduce the number" (without explanation of their method) or it didn't explain it well enough for me to understand what the common practice(s) are/were...
Do not reduce the numbers 1 through 22. All those cards are represented in the deck, and 22 is the same as 0...it is the Fool at the other end. Start reducing at 23 because you have to reduce 23 since there is no 23 in the deck. So, 2 plus 3 = 5. When you are reducing longer numbers, take it down to 22 by adding the numbers together. When you reach 22 stop.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel View Post
Do not reduce the numbers 1 through 22. All those cards are represented in the deck, and 22 is the same as 0...it is the Fool at the other end. Start reducing at 23 because you have to reduce 23 since there is no 23 in the deck. So, 2 plus 3 = 5. When you are reducing longer numbers, take it down to 22 by adding the numbers together. When you reach 22 stop.
I do it that way too. The Fool is both at the 'beginning' and the 'end' of the cycle of the Major Arcana in my book.
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To be honest, I never used the quint between 1972 and 2011, when I joined AT, and never missed it. Of all the supplemental-card approaches, it's the only one that I find of much value, but then only when the cards in the spread need a little extra definition. The subtraction idea came from forum member Amanda, and I still see it as experimental. The implied numbering of the court cards I'm more convinced about. In essence, though, I tend not to use extra cards much in my reading unless I formally build them into a spread.
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