BABALON and Τransubstantiation

MasterJm

AL I:22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me.

Crowley identified Babalon as the 'secret name'.


Somewhat confused. A.Crowley in Thoths Book says

"For he is ever a sun, and she is a moon. But to him is the winged secret flame (Lust), and to her the stooping starlight (Star)'". Our present Aeon is connected with Leo and Aquarius signs (Lust card - Star card).

Who represents who here ? Star is the male principle and Lust the female ?

And whence originates that 777 ?
 

Zephyros

AL I:22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me.

Crowley identified Babalon as the 'secret name'.

I always saw "knoweth" here as in the biblical sense, Babalon being the "interface" through which one dedicates actions to Nuit, in essence, "knows" Nuit. There isn't anything to do with Nuit, because she is Not. Something along those lines...
 

MasterJm

I always saw "knoweth" here as in the biblical sense, Babalon being the "interface" through which one dedicates actions to Nuit, in essence, "knows" Nuit. There isn't anything to do with Nuit, because she is Not. Something along those lines...

And who is the "interface" through which one dedicates actions to Babalon ?
 

Zephyros

And who is the "interface" through which one dedicates actions to Babalon ?

Honestly to answer your question it would help if you gave a little background on what you know, what you have read, which books, etc. I may not be able to answer your question without going deeper into Thelemic lore than I have time for, but I can at the very least point you in a certain direction. I feel like we are pulling snippets of disconnected things out if thin air, and I can't keep up.
 

MasterJm

Honestly to answer your question it would help if you gave a little background on what you know, what you have read, which books, etc. I may not be able to answer your question without going deeper into Thelemic lore than I have time for, but I can at the very least point you in a certain direction. I feel like we are pulling snippets of disconnected things out if thin air, and I can't keep up.


I have read:

The Book of the Law
Magic (Book 4)
Book of the Thoth
Book of Lies

Nothing else.
 

Zephyros

I have read:

The Book of the Law
Magic (Book 4)
Book of the Thoth
Book of Lies

Nothing else.

Those are excellent books, but Crowley's greatest fallacy, as far as I'm concerned, is that reading him can be like butting into a conversation about which you know nothing and are expected to follow. It could be said that he respects his readers a little too much (although once you get into things, he's a great teacher). None of those books are really for the laymen, and so it isn't surprising that you're missing vital information, through no fault of your own. Now, someone like Aeon can, and probably did (})) read those same books and didn't find them lacking, but I'm a normal person and like a bit more explanation.

First off, the best book to give you a general introduction is Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette. You really need to get the basic vocabulary down, since it is evident it is missing (and again I'm not blaming you). That's the best book for it, and it naturally leads to other avenues of study.
I would recommend a firm base in Kabbalah, which you might already have, but if you don't, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabala is a very good book to start from, although there are many. After these two books, the self-referential Book of Thoth will seem much easier. No choice but to do some homework.
 

MasterJm

Those are excellent books, but Crowley's greatest fallacy, as far as I'm concerned, is that reading him can be like butting into a conversation about which you know nothing and are expected to follow. It could be said that he respects his readers a little too much (although once you get into things, he's a great teacher). None of those books are really for the laymen, and so it isn't surprising that you're missing vital information, through no fault of your own. Now, someone like Aeon can, and probably did (})) read those same books and didn't find them lacking, but I'm a normal person and like a bit more explanation.

First off, the best book to give you a general introduction is Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette. You really need to get the basic vocabulary down, since it is evident it is missing (and again I'm not blaming you). That's the best book for it, and it naturally leads to other avenues of study.
I would recommend a firm base in Kabbalah, which you might already have, but if you don't, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabala is a very good book to start from, although there are many. After these two books, the self-referential Book of Thoth will seem much easier. No choice but to do some homework.

I see...thank you, you are very kind. Ι have read also Dion Fortunes book, so i will folllow your advise for Lon Milo DuQuette book.
 

ravenest

... Now, someone like Aeon can, and probably did (})) read those same books and didn't find them lacking, but I'm a normal person ...

:laugh: sorry .... I couldnt help it (the devil made me do it) .

Master Jim. If it IS Babalon and transubstantiation you are enquiring about I suggest these three sources:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/tarot_images/lusta.jpg

Odyssey x 234, where Circe adds some honey and pours her magic potion into the Kykeon.

http://hermetic.com/sabazius/gnostic_mass.htm @ VI - OF THE CONSECRATION OF THE ELEMENTS & VIII - OF THE MYSTIC MARRIAGE AND CONSUMMATION OF THE ELEMENTS.

If you reference that to the relevant parts in the 4 books you listed as read you should get a clearer idea.
 

MasterJm

:laugh: sorry .... I couldnt help it (the devil made me do it) .

Master Jim. If it IS Babalon and transubstantiation you are enquiring about I suggest these three sources:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/tarot_images/lusta.jpg

Odyssey x 234, where Circe adds some honey and pours her magic potion into the Kykeon.

http://hermetic.com/sabazius/gnostic_mass.htm @ VI - OF THE CONSECRATION OF THE ELEMENTS & VIII - OF THE MYSTIC MARRIAGE AND CONSUMMATION OF THE ELEMENTS.

If you reference that to the relevant parts in the 4 books you listed as read you should get a clearer idea.


That is not so flattering for Babalon since Circe for the greeks has the worst meaning and symbolism. She transformed Odysseus brothers to pigs ! Κykeon has no relation to Circe. Hermes, the God of Reason, the Magician, has to do with that. The transformation to pigs symbolizes the passions that prevent them to arrive at Ithaca (symbol of the soul), and only Hermes saves them (Odyssey, K 285), so i suppose correctly i identify Babalon with Lilith. By the way, Circe = Church = Kirche (german). So beginning again to wonder if Blavatsky has right saying that Babalon (Babylon) just symbolizes the tyrannical Roman Catholic Church and nothing more. For a marxist though, all these symbolisms in Johns Apocalyplse were just political encryptions (Babalon was the ancient Rome) - it was natural for the christians of that time to display her as a bloody monster.