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mystere2e's Avatar
mystere2e  mystere2e is offline
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Join Date: 25 Oct 2007
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mystere2e 
The vibe of this thread is unneccessarily negative


I didn't read this entire thread, but want to make a major point.

It seems the general consensus among the first few posters is that BOTA deserves some respect being an offshoot of Golden Dawn.

Said posters then gripe about how ridiculous it is that BOTA occasionally sends donation envelopes.

Yet to join the Golden Dawn is anywhere between $300-700 plus annual dues and sometimes, costs for books. I would know, I did GD for a year.

So how can you come down on BOTA with its small monthly fee, but not say anything about the hypocrisy of modern GD?

I have been a member of BOTA for a couple of years and while the material can be obfuscated its core messages are much easier for me to understand than most jokes-for-books you find in the shops these days. P.F. Case was a brilliant man who had a much better understanding of Tarot than most people. It's a shame more people can't see that.

Just because BOTA prints its materials on lower grade paper, less fancy type, etc., does not change the message of each lesson; I think knocking BOTA for this is just plain shallow.

If you don't want to donate just toss the envelopes out, I don't think it's fair to come on to a forum and talk smack about an otherwise fine organization. Just my opinion...
Top   #51
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Catwomyn  Catwomyn is offline
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I'm not a member of BOTA, too disorganised and ornery, but given the figures of $8112 over 13 years that works out to $52 per month or the cost of a good restaurant dinner or 3 movies. That's not all that much if you are serious about the tarot.

BTW, I've easily spent $8000 on books over the last 13 years.
Top   #52
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mystere2e  mystere2e is offline
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mystere2e 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwomyn
given the figures of $8112 over 13 years that works out to $52 per month
Uh it's DEFINITELY not $52 per month so whoever did the original calculations did it WRONG. If I remember correctly it's $45 every three months.

45 x 4 = 180 per year

180 x 13 years = $2,340

Whoever came up with the original calculation may need to take a mathematics refresher course...

$2,340 is not bad provided your BOTA membership gives you the opportunity to attend the services/lessons/group study, participate in exclusive email lists, etc.
Top   #53
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mystere2e  mystere2e is offline
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mystere2e 

BTW I just checked their site and dues are still $15 per month.
Top   #54
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mystere2e  mystere2e is offline
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mystere2e 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac22
If we use your figures for initiation by correspondence that would come to $8112 for the minimum of 13 yrs.
I'm just curious to know where you got a monthyl dues amount of $52/month, because you might not have read about the "real" BOTA.
Top   #55
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Greg Stanton  Greg Stanton is offline
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Greg Stanton 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mystere2e
It seems the general consensus among the first few posters is that BOTA deserves some respect being an offshoot of Golden Dawn.
I have to ask, why does the Golden Dawn have more cred than any other organization?

The whole sordid history of the organization (all 20 years of it) should make any reasonable person think twice before taking its "teachings" seriously. The sources for its material are questionable Barrett's Magus (errors and all), and the badly-translated "Fragment of a Graeco-Egyptian Work Upon Magic". The GD tarot material is even worse, much of it lifted from the Latin version of Picatrix (astrological decan definitions assigned to the lesser arcana a rather arbitrary and concocted system, in my opinion). All of this mishmash, culled from inaccurate and disparate sources form, in some peoples' minds, "the basis of Western occultism." The real source for much of this was Agrippa which is far more reliable and esoteric (because nobody reads it anymore) than anything you will get from a pseudo-GD temple, Crowley/Thelema, BOTA, or anybody else. I'm not saying that the Three Books are gospel, just that if you want to understand occult doctrine, it's best to digest it in the context of one of its earliest compendiums.

Rant over.
Top   #56
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mystere2e  mystere2e is offline
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mystere2e 

I'm not trying to come off as a ride-or-die BOTA fan but I do feel the need to clarify sometime else (in response to the last post).

Many of the problems you list in the post above, i.e. many of GD's teachings beings contrived and based on inaccurate translations of incomplete works, are what caused P. F. Case to splinter off. That's an oversimplified version of the story of course. And I'm sure someone else will regale a different version of his exit.

All I can tell you is that BOTA's teachings use wayyyy less Egyptology, and the Tarot lessons' only "artificial" teaching is assigning a Hebrew letter to each of the majors. The closest thing to magick I've seen anywhere throughout was the initiation ritual which felt more like a meditative exercise as opposed to the high magick of the GD.

The first course on practical occultism talks a lot about false teachings and I believe this is one of Case's allusions to his interactions with GD.

BOTA focuses more on Hebrew and Qabalah than anything else, though even in the advanced Tarot course they had yet to discuss the tree of life (even though it is on most of BOTA's promo materials).

Anyways... Not a hardcore BOTA fan here... Just trying to play the role of Justice and clear up misconceptions. BOTA is nowhere like the GD. (For the record, I wholeheartedly agree with your summation of GD!)
Top   #57
XIII  XIII is offline
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XIII 

I'll just add another vote in favour of BOTA.

I don't really care that some/most/all of it is available elsewhere. For me, what makes it worthwhile, is the measured pace, which helps me take in the information.

Also, PFC's agenda is not really teaching the Tarot, but presenting a system of belief, almost, based on a Western Mystery Tradition (which can be found from a number of different sources) through these specific cards.

The lessons are once per week, not per month (in case there's still confusion about that), and while that may still be expensive compared to a book, considering I am actually learning something (or rather: bringing a lot of stuff together that was already known to me), I consider it good value for money.

But again, not really in terms of teaching me about the history of Tarot, or readings, or assigning meanings to the cards (or what I generally consider to be the interest of most users here) -- but a system to teach a broader understanding of The All, as a way to improve one self.

It hasn't really taught me anything (Tarot-related) of much use outside of BOTA, nor is that the intention of the system.

Also, I have not yet donated, and probably never will. Makes no difference to one's membership.
Top   #58




 


 


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