Good resources on aspects...?

MandMaud

Traditionally, the opposition was seen as having the characteristics of Saturn (limiting, restricting, preventing), the Square the characteristics of Mars (severing, cutting, separating, challenging directly). Saturn was seen as the greater infortune, Mars as the lesser, so oppositions were seen as stronger than squares.

Trines had the characteristics of Jupiter (expanding, stabilising, abundance) and sextiles had the characteristics of Venus (desire, pleasure, unity, reconciling). Jupiter is the greater benefic and Venus the lesser, so Trines are stronger than Sextiles.

That will really help me; I haven't come across it before. :)

I'll have to "meld" it with the shorthand i got from that link, where opposition for example is "overexcited by" and square is "needs to be combined with". (Imagination is so useful in learning!)

... Actually I'm not sure it helps without a little more help - like frac_ture I'm having difficulty stepping from the theory to applying it to specific cases. I have Sun (Leo, 8th) square Mars (Scorpio, 11th). "Sun needs to be combined with Saturn" makes enough sense to me to be going along with, but thinking of a Mars effect (severing, direct challenge, etc) acting on the Sun-Mars pairing just confuses me. I feel i need one more concept that will be the key for the way my mind learns, and then I'll get it.

Without knowing what I'm doing(!) I have noticed some nice echoes between the positions of these two planets, and have thought this square would have to do with the block I've fought most of my life - but am getting over - when it comes to acting on decisions, putting myself forward, especially in public. Am I close?

Sorry to hijack your thread frac_ture, but I'm hoping this is sort of what you were asking so the answers will help you too. :D
 

frac_ture

Sorry to hijack your thread frac_ture, but I'm hoping this is sort of what you were asking so the answers will help you too. :D

You're not hijacking at all -- this is very much on point, and is totally the kind of specific example that will help me if some more experienced astrologers weigh in (and thanks for sharing!).

I actually have to race out momentarily, and won't be back until after nightfall, so I can't add more right now, but before I sign back in later on, I'm planning to take a stab at my own interpretation of what you offered up here, and then if any of the veterans have answered in the meantime, I'll compare my work against theirs...
 

Ronia

... Actually I'm not sure it helps without a little more help - like frac_ture I'm having difficulty stepping from the theory to applying it to specific cases. I have Sun (Leo, 8th) square Mars (Scorpio, 11th). "Sun needs to be combined with Saturn" makes enough sense to me to be going along with, but thinking of a Mars effect (severing, direct challenge, etc) acting on the Sun-Mars pairing just confuses me. I feel i need one more concept that will be the key for the way my mind learns, and then I'll get it.

I'm sure Minderwiz will clarify this for you but to me you have two planets in their own signs which already makes them strong. I don't know which houses they rule in your chart but what comes to my mind first is that the Leo Sun which wants to show off and to be on a pedestal, joyful, childlike and the deep Scorpionic Mars who hates being exposed are the conflict you have by birth (we all have such conflicts, just different). This may go further, for example for people who are creative (Leo) but have fear from the public and prefer to stay behind the stage (Scorpio). They make great directors though. In personal life it may be about the desire to love joyfully and give, and receive abundantly and openly (Leo) while the "drive" is darker and trusts with difficulty (Scorpio). And so on.
 

MandMaud

You're not hijacking at all -- this is very much on point, and is totally the kind of specific example that will help me if some more experienced astrologers weigh in
...
I'm planning to take a stab at my own interpretation of what you offered up here, and then if any of the veterans have answered in the meantime, I'll compare my work against theirs...
Sounds like you think like I think... :) or you learn like I learn.
Hm... Mercury/Gemini...??

I'm sure Minderwiz will clarify this for you but to me you have two planets in their own signs which already makes them strong. I don't know which houses they rule in your chart but what comes to my mind first is that the Leo Sun which wants to show off and to be on a pedestal, joyful, childlike and the deep Scorpionic Mars who hates being exposed are the conflict you have by birth (we all have such conflicts, just different). This may go further, for example for people who are creative (Leo) but have fear from the public and prefer to stay behind the stage (Scorpio). They make great directors though. In personal life it may be about the desire to love joyfully and give, and receive abundantly and openly (Leo) while the "drive" is darker and trusts with difficulty (Scorpio). And so on.
You're pretty spot on! I look forward to what Minderwiz adds but every point you make here rings true about me.

Meanwhile I'm off to bed, hoping I have time to drop in here tomorrow. Well, today, it being past midnight. :yawn:
 

Ronia

Glad to help. It's not difficult though, you can do it yourself, I'm positive. Take it a bit further and notice the Sun is in the 8th, the house of Scorpio thus ruled by same Mars, while Mars is in the Jupiter's house, natural Saggitarius (optimistic and quite adventurous, to me complements the Leo Sun) and there is a story, I don't think this square is bad actually... There is kind of exchange going on, I think you can use it to your advantage (of course, not knowing the rest I'm just gambling here). The Leo Sun will be coloured by the 8th house (Scorpio) and carry some of the deeper, more secretive, more careful traits of the Scorpio, may bring you some luck with other people's resoursec (Leo is generally lucky in gambling and such and creative ways while Scorpio rules the others' resources) while Scorpio Mars in the house of your broader connections will make you more suspicious as not to jump into anything just like that but when you do YOU'LL DO WITH PASSION AND DEVOTION AND should succeed as Sag will bring chances for expansion, possibly abroad, possibly through luck, possibly through foreigners or academic or spiritual people... Kind of like that.
 

MandMaud

Glad to help. It's not difficult though, you can do it yourself, I'm positive. Take it a bit further and notice the Sun is in the 8th, the house of Scorpio thus ruled by same Mars, while Mars is in the Jupiter's house, natural Saggitarius (optimistic and quite adventurous, to me complements the Leo Sun) and there is a story, I don't think this square is bad actually... There is kind of exchange going on, I think you can use it to your advantage (of course, not knowing the rest I'm just gambling here). The Leo Sun will be coloured by the 8th house (Scorpio) and carry some of the deeper, more secretive, more careful traits of the Scorpio, may bring you some luck with other people's resoursec (Leo is generally lucky in gambling and such and creative ways while Scorpio rules the others' resources) while Scorpio Mars in the house of your broader connections will make you more suspicious as not to jump into anything just like that but when you do YOU'LL DO WITH PASSION AND DEVOTION AND should succeed as Sag will bring chances for expansion, possibly abroad, possibly through luck, possibly through foreigners or academic or spiritual people... Kind of like that.

Yes. And I have Sag rising which all adds in. Definitely expect the best as long as I've planned for the worst (like the best military commanders y'know) and I've had to overcome a tendency to reply "Fine, could be a lot worse!" when asked how things are even if they actually couldn't be much worse at all.

I think what you say about the more careful traits matches my lifelong wish for appreciation (of whateever my natural brilliance is ;) ) without being seen to seek it. Also this thing that makes me strongly aware if anything I say sounds like showing off or like me-me-me. Yes? That may be a bit down to the self-deprecating Brit in me, too.

And yes, when I decide what to do with myself, I do it with deep commitment and passion and stubborn tenacity.

Can't say I've ever been lucky with gambling, in fact when I used to game (in my youth, roleplaying such as AD&D etc) they knew to take the dice off me when it mattered, I was famous for rolling a 1 when I needed a 6! A lot of things tell me I'm supposed to be lucky with others' resources, inheritance, etc, and none of it fits my life at all so far, still looking for the hidden clue somewhere in there. The times I have thought that kind of luck had arrived, inheritance for example, events showed it to be not the great timing I initially thought but the very opposite.

I love travel, and being around foreigners or anyone who's had out-of-the-ordinary experiences, all that goes with Saggy. Perhaps with a Leo love of drama too. Once I learnt the strength of Scorpio in my chart, it made sense of the way I relate to life and to people, unpicking clues, getting deep into what has hurt them, or deep into a subject in a not necessarily fact-bound way.

This last year I've thought a lot about my Saturn in Aries and have felt that I now can, and enjoy, and am good at, Aries behaviour: taking action and decisions, making things happen, leadership. The fact this is comfortable now and is the very opposite of who I always used to be when young (I'm 46) seems to correspond with Saturn's nature, the age thing.

My Uranus half-return was pretty extreme, I lost my health suddenly aged 38 and have just recovered independence (only just) this year. All sorts of revelations and insights in these 7 years.

I got into astrology in the spirit of let's not call it a load of tosh without first testing it to destruction. I've only been seriously looking at it for a number of months but it is proving itself more n more correct, not tosh. :) Just gets better and better. Great to have your kind of as-it's-needed advice, there's lots to read but it's easier (as it is with learning computers, or any skill really) to wander around the subject and have someone who knows better on hand as the questions crop up.
 

Ronia

Eh, don't take the gambling literally, not that's it's impossible but it takes more than one planet to win the jackpot, look at your 5th and 8th houses with the rulers and their condition, then the 2nd... look at Jupiter and Venus... But gambling in taking risks and making it work is more what I meant. Also, I'm a student of astrology, I am by no means anyone to tell you the "truth" if it does exist. I think astrology is a lifelong study, there are so many possible explanations of eaxh position, and then a chart is looked as a whole, IMHO, with 2-3 planets out of the context is like understanding a book from 2-3 chapters.

I think it's fascinating and wish you good luck. :)
 

MandMaud

I think astrology is a lifelong study, there are so many possible
It's that lifelong thing I'm looking forward to! :)

Now off to have a delve into those gambly houses you mention. Still not sure, I haven't even been comfortable taking any kind of risk without going into every possible Plan B, except that lately I'm learning to enjoy the feeling. ("Security is not having things, it's handling things." ~ Susan Jeffers - makes all the difference.)
 

MandMaud

frac_ture, I remembered another piece of "beginner advice" that I came across somewhere: forget about which aspect it is, initially, and just note that any aspect makes a planet worth looking at. I mean just take any aspect as meaning those two planets interact, affect each other. It really helps that feeling that there's simply too much to consider in a whole chart. I'd imagine (I haven't got far enough with this) that it gradually builds into a pictures of which aspect has which effect, as you collect pairs of planets that you've studied like this. For me, this was a great relief to read because it cut it all back to a manageable thing to think about; we learn layer by layer in my experience.
mm
 

frac_ture

frac_ture, I remembered another piece of "beginner advice" that I came across somewhere: forget about which aspect it is, initially, and just note that any aspect makes a planet worth looking at. I mean just take any aspect as meaning those two planets interact, affect each other. It really helps that feeling that there's simply too much to consider in a whole chart. I'd imagine (I haven't got far enough with this) that it gradually builds into a pictures of which aspect has which effect, as you collect pairs of planets that you've studied like this. For me, this was a great relief to read because it cut it all back to a manageable thing to think about; we learn layer by layer in my experience.
mm

Thanks for the tip, MandMaud. I may have to fall back on this approach for a while: apparently trying to get my brain to fully grasp *all* of the different aspects in full detail, all at the same time, isn't happening naturally...;) My expectations of myself may not be all that realistic. I'm mainly studying charts of people close to me for now, and I think I'll try what you suggest as a first layer of aspect interpretation, and then I can take some time to study specifics in each case to add additional layers of understanding...and as you say, that will probably turn into more of a stored mental library of planet pairs and aspects over time... Thanks again!