wondering about galactic center

Ross G Caldwell

prudence said:
Thanks Ross, rainwolf, and leephd, for explaining it a bit more....so, in asking this question, I am mixing up sidereal and tropical approaches? So, if one were to use blackholes in natal chart interps, they would need to have the chart in sidereal "format" (sorry if that is the incorrect phrase) in order to use blackholes? i.e. Alex Miller Mignone uses sidereal?

I don't know about black holes... I suppose, by my theory, the only one that would matter would be the one at the center of our galaxy.

I should say that I remain open minded about some aspects of signs, taken sidereally as equal to the constellations. Particularly the activity in Sagittarius and Scorpio - one time I made an off hand prediction about something because something was going on in Scorpio (I believe) - and it came true shortly thereafter! Sorry I can't remember what it was, but it shook me. I remember only that it was a national or world event, not a personal one.

It could be that the energy of the galactic center, and the fact that the ecliptic crosses the galactic equator near there, makes these two constellations actually "live", while a constellation like Virgo I would tend to consider "inactive" or merely a fiction. If the crossing of the ecliptic with the galactic equator is an important point of energy, then the other crossing point in Gemini would also be important to consider. Perhaps they might be compared to the Moon's nodes, where it the Moon crosses "over" or "under" the plane of the ecliptic.
 

rainwolf

Well with procession correction, where is the GC? I'm guessing the author of the referred webpage used tropical, but if it is recent couldn't we use a tropical zodiac?
 

prudence

Ross G Caldwell said:
Hi Prudence,



Sidereal means a few different things to astrologers, depending on their school, but they all have in common that the chart has taken into account precession, which refers to a wobble in the Earth's rotation that makes the Vernal Equinox point (and the whole ecliptic and starry sky with it) go "backwards" over a period of about 26,000 years.

The essential effect of taking a sidereal approach is, that "what you see is what you get" - if you went out and looked at the sky, the planet really is "in" the Zodiacal constellation corresponding to the Zodiac sign it is named for.

My own "system" (hardly more than a framework at this point) is only mine - I haven't studied any schools of sidereal astrology. I see astrology as "real" - real physical forces, some very strong (like the Sun and Moon) but most very subtle but persistent. All of these forces act to create a complex web of energy that affects everything in the solar system, including Earth and everything on it, to a greater or lesser degree. When we are born (which I define astrologically for a person as the first unaided breath, or for ideas and organizations the moment of the creation of that idea in the minds of the people making it) the character of that moment is "imprinted" in us. The quality of that energy should be modifed by various other more immediate forces of the same character, such as strong electricity (at least, that's what I would expect - I would love to study people born close to electrical generators or during thunderstorms, and perhaps those born close to the Earth's magnetic poles).

For me, the Zodiac constellations, for which the signs were named, are convenient ancient fictions that cannot possibly exert any force. The signs are essentially descriptions of Earth energy at the time the Zodiac was fixed - around 2000 years ago. This is the reason that the Tropical zodiac Sun-signs still seem so appropriate, at least in the northern hemisphere, even though the constellations they referred to all that time ago have precessed almost a complete sign. I.e. Leos still exhibit classical Leo traits, even though most of them are born with the Sun in sidereal Cancer. The answer is that the Earth season is still the same, and imprints its qualities the same way no matter where the Vernal Equinox point is.

This only works for the Sun sign of course, since it is the Sun which determines the seasons. The other planets, for me, are independent of the signs or constellations, and only their aspects should be considered.

For things like the galactic center, I can't see how one can make a tropical use of it, without believing that the Zodiac constellation is actually one of the real actors in the chart - which I don't think tropicalists believe.

That is, the galactic center is a real energy source in a real constellation, not in the fictional tropical zodiac - in my humble opinion. Sagittarius the constellation (sidereal) cannot give this reality to Sagittarius the sign (tropical) as it precesses. There is not a "virtual" galactic center that makes the rounds once every 26,000 years. That is, in my opinion, because the signs refer to earthly seasons, and can be held not to precess, but the galactic center, since it exerts a real force, cannot. The galactic center really precesses with the constellation Sagittarius, and exerts its force from there.

Thus while Pluto is in the tropical Sagittarius, it is not in the real Sagittarius, and is not therefore transiting the GC. Whatever force Pluto might be exerting, and whatever force the GC is exerting, are not in conjunction at this moment.

See - it is much easier to be a siderealist! ;)
Thanks for this, Ross! but...I think I got a little lost. (after "hi prudence or thereabouts :))

It is okay though, you do not need to try to re-explain this, I will figure it out sooner or later.

This is what I (thiink) I understand; sidereal approach cannot be used with GC, and if one uses a sidereal approach, the signs are shifted over one ie, my pisces sun would be a sidereal aquarius. One thing I am wondering, does the rest of one's natal chart also shift, ie natal moon at leo would now be cancer?

So, the transit that is happening now is mainly a Pluto transit(as far as a tropical approach is concerned), and I should just ignore the GC as far as this transit is concerned.

Well, thank you all for your very helpful replies. I do appreciate it even if I do not fully "get" it. ;)
 

Ross G Caldwell

prudence said:
Thanks for this, Ross! but...I think I got a little lost. (after "hi prudence or thereabouts :))

LOL - I know it can be hard. Some people easily think geometrically and in 3 dimensions, with everything moving around in their heads, while others simply cannot. Diagrams are very useful! Sometimes better explanations are as well...

This is what I (thiink) I understand; sidereal approach cannot be used with GC,

I actually think it is the opposite - the real power of the GC really resides in the constellation Sagittarius, so whatever the nature of its force, and whatever planet is really there, are better understood sidereally than tropically.

and if one uses a sidereal approach, the signs are shifted over one ie, my pisces sun would be a sidereal aquarius.

Not exactly.

The effect of precession (the Earth's clockwise wobble (seen from north)) makes any point in the signs move backwards at a rate of about 1 degree every 72 years. So right now, the Vernal Equinox point, which astrologers define as 0 degrees Aries, is at about 5 degrees Pisces. So 25 degrees of tropical Aries is sidereal Pisces. Thus not *every* tropical Aries is a Pisces; those born from around 16-21 April would still be Aries, both tropically and sidereally.

(if you picture the Earth's orbit around the Sun as an ellipse (not exactly a circle, more like a capital "O", then draw a cross in it "+" so that it fits, then the Equinox points are where the horizontal beam meets the narrower part of the orbit, and the Solstice points are where the vertical beam meets the longer part of the O. The Vernal or Spring Equinox is the precise point in the Earth's orbit when the Sun is at 0 degrees, whether you call it Aries or just 0 degrees of a 360 degree circle.)

This is incidentally why everyone is making a fuss about the "Age of Aquarius". The Vernal Equinox point is only about 5 degrees from entering the sign of Aquarius, so will be there in about 360 years.

One thing I am wondering, does the rest of one's natal chart also shift, ie natal moon at leo would now be cancer?

Yes - with the above proviso in mind, depending on whether your Moon is in the last 5 degrees of Leo or not. What you essentially do to get your sidereal chart is turn the zodiac dial counterclockwise about 25 degrees (roughly), while leaving everything else in the chart untouched (planets, horizon, MC).

So, the transit that is happening now is mainly a Pluto transit(as far as a tropical approach is concerned), and I should just ignore the GC as far as this transit is concerned.

Well, I *personally* would ignore it, since I don't believe in the theory behind it and haven't seen any tropical GC effect demonstrated. But you might get something from it from an astrologer who believed in it.

Well, thank you all for your very helpful replies. I do appreciate it even if I do not fully "get" it. ;)

You're welcome. I wish I had fancy diagrams to illustrate it all more clearly.