Pluto-Scorpio-House 8

Isaacrpgr

I was wondering say if Your Pluto sign is scorpio would there be a bigger impact consdiering that pluto rules scorpio,and such similiar

or if its in
Pluto-Scorpion-House 8-Both the house and planet that rule scorpio would that make any huge big diffrence then a Neptune-Scorpio or Mercury Pisces?

and so on
I was just wondering this consdiering all the planets in scorpio at the moment
consdiering i have a scorpio pluto in the 6th house
 

dadsnook2000

Planets, Signs and Houses

These three primary components of an astrological chart each play a different role in deliniation. To appreciate the differences, consider the following:

PLANETS include the Sun and Moon for astrological purposes. While the Moon orbits the Earth and all the planets orbit the Sun, we see those bodies as outside of the earth but near enough, visible enough to have influences upon us as seems to be confirmed thru observation and practice. Their influences may be gravitational, energy radiation, or some other form that has a cyclic and/or persistent effect in our lives. Planets are individually cyclic in terms of their position and rate of apparent movement. Any two planets/bodies can exhibit a variety of relational aspects or phase relationships at any point in time. All of the heavenly bodies we astrologically use appear to have a complex and ever-changing relationship as a whole.

SIGNS are 30 degree segements of space along the ecliptic, the plane that is defined by the orbital path of the Earth about the Sun. Tropical Signs are based, for measuring and definition purposes, on the Aries point. The Aries point is marked by the time/place where the Earth's tilted axis relative to the orbital plane brings us an equal day and night in terms of their clock-length. Signs are shared by everyone together as they are cyclic and seasonal and experienced by all at the same time.

HOUSES are zones about the Earth that relate to our daily rotation (time) and global position on the Earth. Houses are relatively individualistic and are based on our time and location. Our set of houses, therefore are personal in nature. The point on the horizon when we are born is called the Ascendant, that point needs to be defined to be useful. In a two dimensional chart, we have to use the zodiac circle as our reference/measuring point as that is the only tool we have in the chart. Therefore we project the Ascendant using spherical trigonometry to where it crosses the zodiac circle and mark that point on our chart. We do similar things for the MC. The individual house cusps are mathematical constructs that divide the semi-arc between the MC and ASC, and their opposite points) in terms of distance or in time or in some other way. The various ways this is done is associated with the specific House System used to construct and represent the chart. Houses, being personal and earth-day related, represent the unfolding process of experience and environment that we live in each day.

THOSE ARE THE DIFFERENCES. WHAT ARE THE SIMILARITIES?

Both SIGNS and HOUSES have a sequence of unfolding, sequential and circular meaning within the whole set of twelve signs or twelve houses. One can make a case that each segment definition leads to the next segment's meaning and follows some form of logical sequence -- which in turn is circular in that it leads and folds into the beginning again.

That being said, Signs are signs and Houses are houses but Signs or not houses and Houses are not signs. As explained earlier, each is based upon different spatial-locational-time constructs. While there are twelve signs and twelve houses, one should not use that as a basis for claiming similarity. In astrology's history there have been periods where houses were not used, where house systems were based on an octal (eight house system). Even today there are different practices being used.

RULERSHIPS
Today, the use of computers and auto-generated reports seems to have allowed many students to bypass much of the learning process that addresses the complexities and uniqueness of astrology and its development and use over time. Planets are energies of expression. Signs are qualities of expression. Houses are areas of expression. Signs and houses can be seen as modifiers of Planetary energies, but only the Planets are energies in terms of how we interpret a chart.

Because of the popularity of SUN-SIGN astrology (everyone knows their Sun Sign based on the common calendar) there has been a blurring of what the Sun means and what the Sign means. This is unfortunate but understandable. This practice is related to the qualities that Signs are said to exhibit in how they modify a planet's energies when that planet is in that sign. Some planets appear to have more or less clear expression in some signs compared to others. Without going into the details here (that might require writing a book, of which there are already too many), this can be considered the basis for "rulerships" -- the perceived ease or clarity of expression when a planet is in a sign, or the difficulty of expression when in another sign.

In terms of Scorpio, Pluto and the 8th House -- some relate Mars to Scorpio as its ruler, some relate Pluto to Scorpio as it ruler. Arguments have bee given for both cases. However, IMHO, there is much less basis for relating the 8th house to Scorpio. A study of astrological literature suggests to me that this is a relatively recent phenomena of the past 100+ years. Cultural changes within astrology may be realistic and necessary, but they should not be quickly and glibly adopted or else we may quickly end up with a system that doesn't work. Dave
 

star-lover

if the 8th house is not scorpio what sign is it/was it before?
 

dadsnook2000

Where oh where art thou?

Scorpio is the 8th sign. Scorpio is not the 8th house. The 8th house is defined by the time of the day and location on earth where you were born, in a natal chart. Houses are time and location zones relative to where/when you were born on this globe of ours. The sign's are defined relative to the orbital plane of the Earth about the Sun and the tilt of the Earth's axis relative to that plane -- and, as a consequence, are seen against the backdrop of the stars and the universe that surrounds us. Signs are "out there" while houses are "right here."

One has no direct relationship to the other -- except that whe have to take three dimensional constructs and plot them all toghether onto a two-dimensional chart form. That is what seems to confuse people the most.

A sign is a sign. A house is a house. Hope this helps. Dave
 

star-lover

dadsnook2000 said:
Scorpio is the 8th sign. Scorpio is not the 8th house. The 8th house is defined by the time of the day and location on earth where you were born, in a natal chart. Houses are time and location zones relative to where/when you were born on this globe of ours. The sign's are defined relative to the orbital plane of the Earth about the Sun and the tilt of the Earth's axis relative to that plane -- and, as a consequence, are seen against the backdrop of the stars and the universe that surrounds us. Signs are "out there" while houses are "right here."

One has no direct relationship to the other -- except that whe have to take three dimensional constructs and plot them all toghether onto a two-dimensional chart form. That is what seems to confuse people the most.

A sign is a sign. A house is a house. Hope this helps. Dave



where did the house meanings come from if not the sign/planet rulerships?

confused yes lol
 

dadsnook2000

House origins

Various house systems have appeared in astrological practice over a period of time. I cannot be definitive without doing a bit of reading and searching, but my sense is that "houses" were introduced or used to some limited degree by the Greeks. Perhaps Leephd can offer something off the top of her head.

Anyways, houses require quite a bit of math work to calculate as well as a birth time. Early astrological practice did not include "houses" because time was seen and used differently then. For many, the "day" started at sundown when the sky and stars could be observed that were rising -- the rising stars marked the passage of the year, the seasons, the festival days, etc.

Early "houses" that I am aware of were eight-fold divisions of the chart, not twelve. These may have been based on the military "watches" or periods when the guards would be changed. Since night tended to be "longer" due to the lack of lighting for most people, sleep could be interupted for a three-hour watch and still leave enough time for six or eight or nine hours of sleep before daylight.

With the advent of better time measuring mechanisms, sundials, hour glasses, clocks, the ability to use mathematics and time made it possible to use "houses" in a birth chart. This went hand-in-glove with the ability to record birth time -- instead of birth dates -- for individuals, as well as to stimulate research and record keeping. Record keeping was important in the construction of ephemerides that could be copied and reproduced so that all significant astrologers could have a means of knowing where a planet was and where it might be at some future date. Dave.
 

star-lover

thank you very very much dave

i will have todo alot of reading up on all this


thank you xx