Connecting to Thoth deck

vinLove

Hi All

I am a newbie in Tarot reading. Recently I have got hold of a few decks including a cheap small Thoth deck.

I also have a few different RWS type decks too, and am studying them trying to get to know the each card meanings. With RWS, it seem easier and more natural to be able to connect to the cards due to clear vibrant images on the cards and traditional meanings.

However, when I open the Thoth deck, and looking into all the images in the Thoth cards, I find a bit lost in coming up with assured connection. I mean when I see Lover card in RWS, I can tell roughly what the card is about - lovers, couples, partners, and when I read the traditional meaning about the card, it clicks on me well i.e. union, sharing, trust ... etc due to relevant image in the card.

When I see Lovers card in Thoth deck, the image somehow does not strike me with these ideas. Not even lovers or anything to do with love.

Is this expected experience because I am a newbie? Or is there other ways to connect to Thoth cards?
 

seven stars

I started out using the Thoth deck just because it was used by my friend who introduced me to Tarot. It was my only deck for MANY years, & I never memorized all the cards. Had to look them up for every reading - & I did a LOT of readings. Even after I started doing street readings I used that deck & even made my own book just so I would have the definitions I liked at easy quick access. I read reversals & I thought I must just be one of those people who can't memorize that many cards.

When I moved to Rider Waite finally, which was the Deck of the Bastard that I made, all of a sudden everything started clicking & I found I never used my book anymore. I didn't need to - the images triggered all the memories of what I had read for years in those cards. Not so with the Crowley deck, unfortunately.

I'll never use the Crowley deck again.
 

ravenest

Hi All

I am a newbie in Tarot reading. Recently I have got hold of a few decks including a cheap small Thoth deck.

I also have a few different RWS type decks too, and am studying them trying to get to know the each card meanings. With RWS, it seem easier and more natural to be able to connect to the cards due to clear vibrant images on the cards and traditional meanings.

Many people start that way ... and decide that's their zone and stick with it, some go on to different decks, depending, I suppose , what one's view on tarot is. RW deck is probably good for learning how to read the cards generally. The Thoth deck is a bit more specific to its own 'tradition' and the images follow that.

However, when I open the Thoth deck, and looking into all the images in the Thoth cards, I find a bit lost in coming up with assured connection. I mean when I see Lover card in RWS, I can tell roughly what the card is about - lovers, couples, partners, and when I read the traditional meaning about the card, it clicks on me well i.e. union, sharing, trust ... etc due to relevant image in the card.

Yes, that could be called a traditional view of the card. It is fine for a general understanding and readings. The Thoth Lovers can be interpreted that way as well, on that level, but looking at the card there is a lot more going on in there ... for me, I often like to look deeply into things ... even 'everyday things' that I come across or interact with so I like a deck that looks deeper into things , from a perspective that I am philosophically happy with. One can do that with Waite, but his 'philosophy' isnt really what I jell with.

When I see Lovers card in Thoth deck, the image somehow does not strike me with these ideas. Not even lovers or anything to do with love.

For me I see many things in it on many different levels; its a marriage, a wedding - I dont particularly like that ... it seems all official and church like, there is a large 'God-the-Father-ish' image looming over the whole thing as if blessing it, or condoning it, not for me ! (hey man! I was bought up in the 70's and lived on hippy communes .... after I dropped out of the family tradition of being catholic :) ) . Yet cupid seems to obscure his face ... we know what a 'trouble maker' HE can be.

It is also a mystical marriage, a very complex ritual (The Gnostic Mass), an alchemical process and perhaps even a comment on a type of Jungian psychology about the make up if the self and the relationship of soul to 'self' ... then the symbols ( and parts of the image on the card) can be interpreted very differently. It is one of the 'power energy nodes' of existence or manifestation ... its process occurs in nature ... this is one view I have of what the Trumps are depiciting, significant nodes of 'archetypal' experience. For me the Thoth depicts the 'node' itself a bit more fully, the RW tarot Lovers card maybe just shows an outward form of that?

Is this expected experience because I am a newbie? Or is there other ways to connect to Thoth cards?

If you are new tarot, sure it is ... and quiet normal. It depends on what you want out of Tarot (or what you come to in tarot). If you want your tarot to become a magical tool and companion that teaches you, you might at a later stage, when you learn more about the basics, look at it different.

For me, the deeper usages of the Tarot are summed up quiet well in the beginning of the Book of Thoth:

" WHEEL AND---WHOA!
The Great Wheel of Samsara.
The Wheel of the Law. (Dhamma.)
The Wheel of the Taro.
The Wheel of the Heavens.
The Wheel of Life.
All these Wheels be one; yet of all these the Wheel of the TARO alone avails thee consciously. Meditate long and broad and deep, O man, upon this Wheel, revolving it in thy mind!

Be this thy task, to see how each card springs necessarily from each other card, even in due order from The Fool unto The Ten of Coins. Then, when thou know'st the Wheel of Destiny complete, may'st thou perceive THAT Will which moved it first."

http://www.merlinnz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/wheel_of_life.jpg
 

Richard

.......Is this expected experience because I am a newbie?
No! It is because you are coming at it from a Rider-Waite perspective.
Or is there other ways to connect to Thoth cards?
The only way to connect with it in a consistent fashion (if you care about consistency) is to try and understand what Crowley had in mind when he created it. It is explained in the companion book, The Book of Thoth, but it is hard going because it involves subjects like Qabalah, astrology, and alchemy. If you want to get into what the Thoth is really all about, the most readable introduction may be Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette.

My personal opinion is that the Thoth is not an alternative to the Rider-Waite. Both decks derive from same tradition but the Thoth's symbolism is hard core Thelema (a philosophy introduced in Crowley's The Book of the Law), whereas Waite's deck draws more on traditional imagery, such as that of the Tarot de Marseille and the Sola Busca. For traditional tarot divination, I sincerely don't think the Thoth is the best choice, although some people manage use it that way anyhow.
 

Lilianne

I think this deck does warrant some study of the Qabalah and the basic rationale underlying Thelema that does give light to some of his reasoning (e.g. the lovers, lust, art and why he changed certain card positions). One doesn't have to become a Thelamite of course. I've found it the most fulfilling deck, but I have yet to use it for attempting to read. As a newbie reader I'm using the Rider-Waite but consciously carrying the Thoth meanings across. I did try another more exoteric deck but had to abandon it.

It would seem that the only way to connect to these cards is to study them. Once their symbolism is understood, memory isn't as necessary. Having said that, I still have a task with the Court cards.
 

Oink

No! It is because you are coming at it from a Rider-Waite perspective.The only way to connect with it in a consistent fashion (if you care about consistency) is to try and understand what Crowley had in mind when he created it. It is explained in the companion book, The Book of Thoth, but it is hard going because it involves subjects like Qabalah, astrology, and alchemy. If you want to get into what the Thoth is really all about, the most readable introduction may be Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette.
I agree with all of this, particularly the recommendation for Lon Milo's book. You can read the Book of Thoth online for free anyway, so no need to put any money there. The Book of Thoth can be difficult for two reasons: 1) it was written a long time ago by an intelligent person with a large vocabulary, and 2) it contains some internal contradictions/not fully formed theories that Crowley expanded on in more detail in later writings. These contradictions are noted and explained very clearly in the Duquette book.
For traditional tarot divination, I sincerely don't think the Thoth is the best choice, although some people manage use it that way anyhow.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traditional tarot divination". I think there are "traditional" (at this point) ways to read the Thoth, but they differ from the way most people read the RWS (I have no idea what that tradition is). The Opening of the Key spread is described at the end of the Book of Thoth, though not in great detail. I much prefer it to the Celtic Cross when reading the Thoth. Another way the reading traditions differ is that the Thoth tradition uses elemental dignities while the RWS tradition incorporates reversals.
 

skipbosco

Greetings from this beginner.

I've been doing Tarot (or it's been doing me) for about a month and it's been a crazy interesting intense trip so far. A friend who has years and years of experience with all things Crowley nudged me in the direction of the Thoth....which arrived in the mail a couple hours ago....the DuQuette book should show up tomorrow. Anyway, a few minutes ago I was IMing with a friend, and she's going through a difficult patch in terms of getting her business in the black, she runs an acupuncture clinic...so I threw a regular Tarot spread and told her what I got, and then threw another regular spread and got a very close variation of the first....then, just for my own curiosity, I threw down a Thoth spread and WHAM! BAM! ...pretty much all the same messages but kinda TECHNICOLOR! VIVID! and crazy detailed. I know I need to study up on all of this stuff, but wow, what I immediately love about this deck is the crazy amount of information it spits out.
 

Abrac

I think to get the most out of either one some study is required, the Thoth more than the RWS though. With the RWS, the outer layer is fairly obvious, while the Thoth, even its outer layer is pretty obscure until you've done your homework.
 

vinLove

Just ordered a copy of Lon Milo book "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot:"