Thelemic pronunciation?

Ross G Caldwell

I used to have it on vinyl (side A was Crowley, side B Jimmy Page's unused piece for Kenneth Anger's "Lucifer Rising" movie), but long ago sold it.

It was the first and second Enochian Keys, in English and Enochian (Golden Dawn style), and a half dozen poems, as well as a French song written by him but sung by someone else.

No "Thoth" in among the poems, however. I assume he pronounced it quasi-academically though, because he writes it in Coptic as θωουθ (sorry the Coptic font doesn't seem to work here, but it is the same letters) in his notebooks, so he would have said "Th-O-OO-Th" (perhaps the Theta was aspirated rather than a full TH sound, but whatever).
 

Zephyros

LOLOLOL

Sorry, I can only imagine him saying Thoooooth in his rather thin voice like a cheap campfire cliche ghost story, imitating the boogyman to scare little kids.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Somewhere there is a thread here where the whole issue of the pronunciation of Thoth was thrashed out. There is a wikipedia page on it as well.

My conclusion was "Judy" is the best pronunciation for Djehuty. So to get people's attention I sometimes mention the "Book of Judy".

He did have an affected reading voice. It is necessary to affect an accent, as little as possible obviously, but still necessary, when reading his poetry aloud. You have to hear it in your head as such anyway.

One reviewer - or rather, critic - in 1899, of "Jephthah: and Other Mysteries", gives a good word for one of his unfortunate idiosyncrasies - "Cockney rhymes". This accent is what allows, apparently, words like "dawn" and "sworn" to rhyme.

We're lucky that his more mature poetry eschews such desperate gimmicks, although one is still forced into some unnatural emphases - and the occasional accent affectation - to scan the meter correctly.
 

Zephyros

What's unfortunate is that we (me) inevitably imagine great figures to sound like James Earl Jones, while very few actually do. Even Hitler, a master orator, didn't have that impressive a voice, his virtue was mainly in delivery.

I like reading aloud, it alleviates my stutter, and I certainly sound impressive and have a grand voice in my head. In reality...

ETA:I also sing quite a lot (alone) to warm up the vocal chords or whatever, again it helps lessen the stutter. Nobody should hear me sing
 

Aeon418

They were released on CD though. Does anyone have them?

At the risk of sounding like a complete fanboy .... :|

I've got 5 different versions of that CD. :laugh:

1. The Great Beast Speaks.
2. Satanic Verses. (6 disc box set. Disc 2)
3. Aleister Crowley 666.
4. Aleister Crowley - The Order of the Silver Star.
5. Aleister Crowley - Black Magic Recordings. (With free A.C. pin badge and fabric sew on patch. :laugh:)
 

Zephyros

I'm surprised he never recorded the Book of Law. Maybe he thought it a new-fangled idea not in keeping with the dignity of the Book? It would probably have cleared up a lot of confusion about many things, including fill/kill.
 

Aeon418

I'm surprised he never recorded the Book of Law. Maybe he thought it a new-fangled idea not in keeping with the dignity of the Book? It would probably have cleared up a lot of confusion about many things, including fill/kill.

Maybe recording something of that length on wax cylinders was impractical and/or expensive. As far as I know the cylinders that Crowley used could only record a few minutes worth of sound each.
 

Babalon Jones

poetaytoe poetahtoe

I tend to say things like I hear them in my head when I read. Which often is the wrong way to say them. i'm rather apt to mispronounce words, since I read prolifically and speak hardly at all, being a massive introvert and knowing few that share my interests.

That said, I say "Thel-EE-ma" as that is what it sounds like in my head when I read, but say "THEL-em-ites" for same reason. No notion of what is right, but when I saw this thread, I googled it out of curiosity and found another forum where James Eshelman speculated that Crowley likely would have pronounced it "Thel-EE-ma" too just because in his time, they did not know the proper pronounciation of the Greek word and thought eta was pronounced EE rather than as a long drawn out shorter e sound (eehhh?)

I say Ha-DEET, not "had-it". Nuit like "knew-it" but compressed almost like "noot", and same with "khuit".

Again, probably wrong as I am one of those barbarians who cannot bring myself to call it the "tote" or "tot" deck though I know perfectly well there is no "th" in egyptian and only a hard t or d instead. I just hear Thoth when I read it, with the "th" sound. i could concede to Toth but I would feel faker saying it for some reason.

This makes me think of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford's "don't worry about it" and how you just shouldn't bother talking to other Qabalists. :p
 

Zephyros

I tend to say things like I hear them in my head when I read. Which often is the wrong way to say them. i'm rather apt to mispronounce words, since I read prolifically and speak hardly at all, being a massive introvert and knowing few that share my interests.

We have that in common. Ironically, though, I have always had jobs that have forced me to talk to literally hundreds of people a day. I do well in them, although I prefer my own company.

Babalon Jones said:
Again, probably wrong as I am one of those barbarians who cannot bring myself to call it the "tote" or "tot" deck though I know perfectly well there is no "th" in egyptian and only a hard t or d instead. I just hear Thoth when I read it, with the "th" sound. i could concede to Toth but I would feel faker saying it for some reason.

I have to admit, I say Thawth, too. I know it's wrong, but Tot always makes of think of actual tots, while Tote makes me think of a tote bag. I'm not even going to try to say Thote, that's just too ugly to contemplate.

I still say (think) Khuit as a spitting sound, though.
 

ravenest

I think 3 things should come together here;

the background info on pronunciation (as in posts above)

familiarity with AC's material (the poems and other writings)

How you use it (I mean, I couldnt care less, except for my own sound vibrations in rituals and such. ) and whether it fits for you.

And mix all that up together.

During my constant Liber Resh days, I was wont to chant the verses in Egyptian, that started a looong time ago and the 'pronunciation' came from examining the old translations that were published with it.

Supposedly no one knows what it sounds like anyway.

But some give it a go - I know a guy that does in his work as a museum curator for the visitors ... but he is highly trained and studied ... unfortunately I have never heard him .

Mine is probably ludicrous .... but it works ! ... for me. [ Kh ... deep in the back of the palette ... some words with consonants left out to make tricky transitions; nbt , nkt ... some words run together ... added patterning and rhythm and breath, focus on special words or 'climatic phrases' ; Aum ... let it fill me ... the light is mine ... etc.

In any case, perps the words and pronunciation need to be looked at more in the context of Thelema than ancient Egyptian language ... or even, as above, Coptic < urk! > .