5 of Swords - Defeat

inanna_tarot

Hi

I know there are other threads about this card, but today I did a reading and got a wonderful response from this card. Its not a thread about the handles or the swatiskas so I thought I'd start a more general thead.

It came up as the advice about a relationship reading, and at first I thought feck, how the hell do I put this in a nice empowering way! Then I started to type this...

Here we have 5 swords making an inverted pentacle. The swords themselves are rusted, broken and even bent. The background colours are a disorganised mesh of purple, blue and green.
Sometimes in life we have to realise when things have had their time, when they past the time of being benefitional and enriching and make us stagnant and bring on dis-ease. Some people interpret the inverted pentacle as focused in on the self rather than divine consciousness of the upright pentacle. The advice seems to be to focus on yourself and deal with healing all those energy centres that have been damaged or prevented from growing and realising their true potential. The colours purple, blue and green relate to energy centres or chakras.
Purple relates to the third eye chakra, our intuition and link to our higher self. Have you been ignoring your gut feelings about your relationship? Now is the time to act on those feelings and do what feels right, it could also open a doorway for you to spiritually develop and look into alternative therapies to help you and eventually others!
Blue relates to the throat chakra, how we communicate with each other and especially how we express our emotions, thoughts and feelings. Perhaps you have been repressing how you really feel about this situation with your partner? Have you been repressing to yourself how you really feel about this relationship? When we are open with ourselves, we can be open about it to others. You may find that writing down how you really feel, all those little niggles and upsets onto paper and get it out of your system. Then later you can review how you feel and see if its worth the energy to pursue with this relationship or not. Let the head and the heart meet eachother half way.
Green relates to the heart chakra. Obviously this has caused a lot of stress on you emotionally and your feelings for your boyfriend. But also it represents your own self-esteem and confidence, how much you can love and respect yourself. Like you wouldn't be happy if a loved one was in a self-destructive place and would help them out of that hole, do you love yourself to do the same for you? To reach out and seek the love and advice of friends and family to help you? Look for where there is unconditional love in your life and feel warm and nurtured in that, rather than a love that comes with stress or conditions.

I havent had any feedback yet, but it was a wonderful way which the Thoth speaks sometimes. The worst cards can be harsh reality, and so the only way is up. It was such wonderful advice and could be a few seeds of thought for other people!

Blessings,
Sezo
x

Aeon418

I see the Fives as the next logical step after the Fours. The Fours are wrapped up in their own little self contained world. Everything in the world of the Fours "seems" to be in perfect order. But the Fours don't go anywhere do they ? In the end they become stuck in a rut. The only way to make progress is to introduce movement and change. But the Fours don't like change, so to them the Fives appear evil. The Fives stir things up and cause change. They break down the walls errected by the Fours to make room for new growth in different directions.

Dean

U.k

I think that the 5 of swords ~ Defeat in the Thoth as a very important message for any Relationship breakdown.

Symbols for Defeat

Five bent damaged swords meet at their points and form a pentagram ~ Conflicts reaches its peak in a broken partnership, trust in reality has been destroyed.

Fallen rose petals along the pentagram ~ Old wounds are torn open again suffering in love.

White light in the pentagram ~ The minds ability to accept Defeat and over come fear as part of the learning process.

TheoMo

Aeon418 said:
I see the Fives as the next logical step after the Fours. The Fours are wrapped up in their own little self contained world. Everything in the world of the Fours "seems" to be in perfect order. But the Fours don't go anywhere do they ? In the end they become stuck in a rut. The only way to make progress is to introduce movement and change. But the Fours don't like change, so to them the Fives appear evil. The Fives stir things up and cause change. They break down the walls errected by the Fours to make room for new growth in different directions.

I like how you phrased this a lot. With the 4 of swords there is the illusion of stability -- but it is merely a "truce", a mental mask we place over things, telling ourselves that there are no problems when in fact we are merely glossing over serious differences or simply sweeping them under the rug.

the introduction of the 5th sword is inevitable, because the 4 swords are simply a temporary fix. The situation of the 5 of swords can often be painful or difficult, but it is a result of our own actions, and it is our own mental thought processes that keep the swords in such a position. Fives relate to the Hierophant, which in the Thoth deck (for me at least) is a figure who appears to mock us when we're down, but in reality is a great teacher who helps us understand the difficulties we produce for ourselves.

Thus, dealing with defeat involves recognizing that we are setting our own limits. Possibilities exist, but we have to think outside the box. The next card is the 6, "science," seeing all perspectives, observing and analyzing. The 5 challenges us to think differently or else remain in a hurtful mental situation.

wizzle

all the swords

I did my take on the swords in this thread

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=47892&page=1&pp=10

Nice interpretation Sezo. The colors blue, purple and green in the Thoth cards are associated with Ysod/Moon/Foundation, Chesed/Jupiter/Mercy and Netzach/Venus/Victory respectively because the Thoth is based on the qabala. However, I like your interpretation via the chakra colors and think it adds a lot of insight into the card.

I've been struggling to resolve the qabala with the 7 chakras, which I think is a serious shortcoming in that system. At least it's a shortcoming based on the material I've read so far. And I'm really glad to see someone else dealing with colors of the Thoth and the chakras.

Duquette has this to say about Lady Harris's use of the colors of the qabala:

"No matter how difficult it may be to work out the method of the color madness of every card in the Thoth Tarot, we can be relatively confident that Lady Harris was not careless or arbitrary in her selections. Her painstaking efforts to expree in colors the complex and wonderful forces of the universe resulted in the creation of a unique and powerful meditative tool. Each time we work with the cards- each time we lay them out and allow our eyes to drink in their interwoven and interconnected colors- we silently activate those same connective webs of universal influences within ourselves." *

So again, well done Sezo

*Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette, page 69

inanna_tarot

hehe thanks Wizzle. As far as I know Crowley knew about the Chakra system as well, so they could also relate, knowing how much he liked to link systems together. I know more about chakras and their colours than the spheres - well at the mo hehe. I feel the client really got some amazing advice considering it was for free hehe.

When dealing with the minors I think of the even numbers as balance, and the odds as lack of balance. I read that somewhere and its stuck, and its good advice. There is a lot more movement in the odd numbers.

Agree with all the other thoughts here as well. Can always trust a Thoth thread to have lots of discussion!

Blessings,
Sezo
x

noby

Aeon418 said:
I see the Fives as the next logical step after the Fours. The Fours are wrapped up in their own little self contained world. Everything in the world of the Fours "seems" to be in perfect order. But the Fours don't go anywhere do they ? In the end they become stuck in a rut. The only way to make progress is to introduce movement and change. But the Fours don't like change, so to them the Fives appear evil. The Fives stir things up and cause change. They break down the walls errected by the Fours to make room for new growth in different directions.

I really like this way of seeing the Fives. It's very dynamic. And I like ways of looking at the cards which strip away the layers of emotional valence which can limit how many ways we see and interpret them. Fives shake up energy which has stabilized; this can be seen as good or bad, depending on the situation and/or the attitude of the reader or querent.

I like the Crowleyan keywords, and find them helpful, but I think they can be very hindering if one gets attached to rigidly identifying the cards with one interpretation of the keyword. "Defeat" can be a very positive experience; it can shake us out of our complacent stance and force us to look at what is exposed when it all falls apart.

Aeon418

TheoMo said:
Thus, dealing with defeat involves recognizing that we are setting our own limits. Possibilities exist, but we have to think outside the box. The next card is the 6, "science," seeing all perspectives, observing and analyzing. The 5 challenges us to think differently or else remain in a hurtful mental situation.

That's a good point TheoMo.

The 6 of Swords, Science, reconciles and balances the 4 and 5 as is indicated by it's qabalistic attribution to the sephira Tiphareth. The 6 of Swords offers us advice on how we should relate to the constructive 4 - Chesed and the destructive 5 - Geburah on the plane of thought. We are to take on the attitude of the impartial scientist. Preference for either the 4 or the 5 is evidence of imbalance. The detached attitude is advised.

5 of Swords - Defeat

inanna_tarot

Aeon418

Dean

TheoMo

wizzle

inanna_tarot

noby

Aeon418