A first stab at astrological analysis

mikema63

So starting from the very general I'm a gemini. (I was born june 3rd) Amusingly my husband was born on may 30th the same year as me, and my sister in law was born may 27th in a different year, so we are all gemini.

I used astrolabe.com which has a calculator for birth charts and apparently being a Gemini involved being intelligent but with a short attention span (I have add and my husband has a really short attention span as well) and being easily bored and a bit moody. Which all seems true. Also lots of talking, which is funny because when my sister in law visits the three of us talk a ton and often talk over and interrupt each other.

Mercury is in gemini, so I'm aparently a great communicator? I did run into a book at BandN that I didn't buy that had descriptions of each birth date and mine could be boiled down to being really good at talking and writing (which is good for my aspiration to be a published writer.)

Venus is also in Gemini, which suggests wanting variety in relationships or even multiple relationships at once. Which was really amazing to read because my husband and I are polyamourous and have an open relationship.

The moon is in cancer, so apparently that means I like to nurture people and am emotionally stable? I do like to feed people (I was born and raised in the south, feeding people is like shaking hands) but I'm not always that emotionally stable.

Mars is in aries so I'm independent and assertive, which is true to a fault.

Jupiter is in virgo, and the description for that is beyond me. What does "being expansive" mean?

Saturn is in Aquarius, which apparently means my values are a reflection of the value systems of my peers, which is just not true. I am very untraditional, and I've been friends with people with radically different points of view. I actually really love arguing and discussing that sort of thing.

Neptune and pluto seem to apply to my entire generation, so meh.

I don't get the rising sign thing and the N. node. So if anyone wants to explain that to me feel free.
 

Minderwiz

That's a good start! But you have already noticed that some things fit well and others do not. That's because so far, the descriptions are only general. That is they could apply to anyone with these sign placements, and like all general statements they are true only in general and not necessarily to every specific instance. Your husband is very likely to have all these placements, except for the Moon. Your sister has a good chance of having a number of them, such as the Mercury placement (if not it will be in Taurus or Cancer), and the Venus placement too (if not it will be in Taurus or Cancer and just possibly in Leo or Aries). But you and your husband are not identical in every respect. There are some individual differences, there will also be individual differences between you and your sister.

In order to get the reading specific to you, we need a chart. And that is where the rising sign comes in. That acts as the origin of your chart - the place where we start the reading and from which we can tell in what area of your life the other planets mainly show up. That is the most important point in your chart. Unfortunately you don't say what it is but if you can tell us that, I can begin to show you how things would unfold.

As for the North Node, It can wait till later. A number of Astrologers take that as having significance for Karma (a concept imported into Western Astrology in the twentieth century).

You raised the question of what expansive means in connection to Jupiter. This again is a very modern attribution. That Jupiter expands certain attributes of your personality and makes them more prominant, usually in a good way.

Now when Horoscopic Astrology was invented (and it was an invention), Jupiter's characteristics were not seen as expansive. They were seen more as moderation (as indeed was Venus) - think of the phrase everything in moderation and you get a glimpse of the meaning. Jupiter was and is a benefic planet it brings good things, and good things don't involve excess, Only when corrupted does Jupiter involve expansion beyond a 'proper' level. Jupiter does encompass natural growth so that you can realise what you are meant to be and it does encompass being a full member of society. I'll come back to that later when we begin to look at your chart.

I wouldn't see Saturn in the same terms as Astrolabe gives it. Saturn in Aquarius is more connected with methodical thought and analysis - the scientific method' So Disciplined Research and procedures are more in keeping. But, if that conflicts with other different traits in your chart, either one will overcome the other(s) or their will be compromise. For example you might try to discipline yourself to overcome the 'short attention span of Mercury in Gemini (assuming that was true). That attempt may or may not work. The chart would be likely to show what the outcome will be.

OK, so let's have your Rising Sign and we can proceed. If you can post the natal details (the date, time and place you entered into Astrolabe, that would help but it's not essential for the next step)
 

mikema63

The rising sign was leo.

June 3rd, 1992.
Orlando Fl.

It's interesting you say that about the scientific method and research. I'm actually studying molecular biology and have always planned to go into research.

Thank you, by the way.
 

Etene

Do you have the correct time, at least as correct as you can manage? Noon is often used as a guess when people don't know, and Leo is ascending at noon EDT on that day for that location, so I'm a bit suspicious since you did not indicate a time with the date. If "around noon," it'd be nice to know with a little more accuracy because Saturn crosses the western horizon at 11:25 that morning and the ascendant shifts to Virgo at 12:20.
That's a good start! But you have already noticed that some things fit well and others do not.
Nearly none of the delineations that I've read for planet-in-sign fit (at least my perception of) me. They performed so badly that I re-ran my chart under sidereal and got a closer match. :D
 

Minderwiz

Thanks for your rising sign. That means you were born sometime between 10:00 am and 12:20 pm, a span of two hours twenty minutes. Virtually all Astrologers would treat a chart based on that period as something that must be treated with considerable care. I wouldn't disagree with them in terms of a thorough analysis but I can give a better approximation than would normally occur by using Whole Sign Houses but I can't be precise.

So let's look at the chart, which I've added as an attachment. I set the time as the mid point of Leo rising, so it's 11:10 a.m but that's an approximation of your birth time.

With Leo rising, the whole sign of Leo is treated as your first house. From there, Virgo is your second house, Libra your third, Scorpio your fourth and so on, in particular, Aquarius is your seventh house, Taurus your tenth house and Cancer your twelfth house. As you will see, the Houses relate to areas of your life or, to use the original term, topics in your life.

Before we go on to look at those areas in more detail, There are one or two things I need to point out.

Firstly whilst the first, fourth, seventh and tenth houses are in the same signs as I have indicated, the other cusps are likely to be different. That issue of House division, you can look at later on, when you get to Intermediate or even beyond.

Secondly whilst it works well for the Topics, Whole Sign Houses doesn't work well with every forecasting technique. However, that is another intermediate to advanced topic.

Finally, for the moment, Modern Psychological Astrology, treats the chart as a map of your psyche and there is a very strong emphasis on integrating the whole chart, as you are a single person. That can cause real issues for the beginner because there are parts that just don't seem to fit into an integrate whole. The Traditional approach on the other hand regards the chart as relating to the person (often referred to as the native, because we're talking about their nativity) and also to their environment. That is the chart relates to external reality and thus can be used for predictions of observable change. Those predictions are falsifiable – that is they can actually be observed to happen or to fail to happen. The psychological approach also deals with predicting internal events, which are difficult or impossible to observe in any objective sense. This contrast is one of the fundamental differences between much of Modern Astrology and the Tradition.

OK, let's proceed. In the tradition the first house is concerned with the native (you) and their nature. In this chart, that puts you as Leo, not Gemini and ruled by the Sun, not by Mercury. By Medieval times there was a sophisticated doctrine of Temperament, which overlayed this simple approach, as it incorporated the Sun, The Moon and their rulers into analysis of what we would today call personality. However those personality types are still with us today. We still use the terms, Melancholic, Sanguine, Phlegmatic and Choleric to describe personalities and, under different names, you will still find them used in Psychology (that practiced by educationalists, and indeed some professionals), whereas Jung is treated as suspect because of his like of Astrology. It's rather a piquant point.

I'm not going to do the full temperament analysis. That can come later if you want. For now I'd say that Leo and the Sun are dominant forces in your chart. I'd echo the second century Astrologer, Vettius Valens and say that would put you as good hearted, kind, hating wickedness and valuing decency and the quality of being civilised (in the original sense of valuing society and human interaction). You don't like being required to flatter and fawn over people who are supposed to be your superiors (either at work or in society). You are also very fond of your own ideas and opinions.

Now Saturn sits in Aquarius in your Seventh house. It opposes you Ascending sign, and will provide you with some problems, depending on how close it is to the degree of the ascendant. Saturn is seen as limiting or excluding things. It builds walls around areas of your life and that opposition to the ascendant means that you might have problems, that whilst they are surmountable, mean that life doesn't run as smoothly as you would like.

Your second house is Virgo. It's also ruled by Mercury, like Gemini but it has a tenant. Jupiter lies in your second house. The second relates to your finances and material well being. Jupiter lives there, and Jupiter is a benefic or good influence on your finances. Or at least it would be, but it's not quite as good as it could be. Virgo is it's Detriment, opposite it's sign of Pisces (note I use the traditional rulerships, which are the only ones that make sense as a system). So your Finances should be alright but might not reach what you think they should be. They won't be bad though as Mercury is well placed in it's own Sign and in a good house. So objectively you shouldn't be seen as in a bad way financially, even if you're not as happy with them as you think you should be. Jupiter is likely to have the most effect on your finances short term, Mercury in the long term. It's likely to be where you get most benefit in your life.

Your third house doesn't have a tenant, so look to it's ruler Venus to tell you more about your siblings (your sister) and foreign travel (I'd treat that as anything out of state). Venus is well placed in the eleventh house with Sun and Mercury. Venus is a benefic planet and while not ideally place by Sign still indictes that you should still have a good relationship with her (especially as Sun, ruler of your Ascendant, and Venus are both in the same house and sign.)

Your fourth house is Scorpio and that is ruled by Mars. Again there's no tenant, so Mars indicates parents, family in the widest sense. It also signifies real estate and buried treasure. Now Mars is in Aries, your ninth house. It's again well placed and it's in its own Sign. But Mars is not by nature benefic. What's more it is more of a problem in a day chart, like yours. So you might find that your home life is from time to time rather Martial. That can range from arguments, estrangements, to, as Valens puts it, intimacy or habitual sex. Valens also links Mars to adultery (which he would classify as sex with someone who is not your husband, whether open or not) so that seems to fit your description of your life. It's the area where you are most vulnerable and where things can go most wrong. That's a practical and astrological conclusion. It doesn't represent the everyday situation but it does show a potential event or events that will cause real difficulties.

Your fifth house of Children (and the way you enjoy yourself) is Sagittarius and it's again untenanted. Look to Jupiter for more information. Sagittarius is treated as a double bodied sign (centaurs being part man part horse) so two or more children are possible, though Sagittarius is not a particularly fruitful sign.

Your sixth house of illness is Capricorn and is ruled by Saturn. That would suggest that Saturn type problems will crop up at some point. Like you I've a Leo Ascendant. I now have two Saturn problems, in my late sixties. knees and teeth. Other Saturn problems would relate to skin (that which forms the boundary between you and the external environment) and the skeleton and bones. As Saturn is the planet of Melancholy another problem area could be depression. Now you won't necessarily get all or any of these but they are the most likely. Even if you do get one or more, they may be one offs or come late in life.

Aquarius is your seventh house. It's the house of marriage and relationships. So Saturn would signify your husband. But a more extensive examination would look at other planets, particularly the Sun and Jupiter or Mars.

Pisces is your eighth house. The main topics are other people's money, inheritances, and death. Don't take the latter as an area of worry. We all have eighth houses. and we all die at some point. There's nothing to suggest that you should not live a long life. Treat the eighth more as dealing with inheritance.

Aries is your ninth house. It's ruled by Mars and Mars is there. The ninth covers religion, higher education, divination, such as Astrology, The ninth is a good house and as Mars is there in it's own sign, things should go well unless Mars leads to excess behaviour, for example arguing with your tutors. So problems here, if they come will be of a martial nature. Mars relates to cutting and separating. Interestingly molecular biology is cutting and separating to the ultimate degree (even if it doesn't use traditional cutting implements, it's about separating something into its smallest components.

Taurus is your tenth house – that's career and social standing. It's ruled by Venus and Venus is next door in the elventh house with Mercury and the Sun. Venus indicates a good fit for careers in art, fashion, music, making or selling jewellery. and working in the entertainments or hospitality industries. Given Venus' position in the elventh, with Mercury, All of those careers could be modified by involving writing bout those areas or having the support of friends for your career moves. Now I don't quite see how that fits in with career in molecular biology but then if you've argued with your tutors.... :D

Gemini is your eleventh house. This relates to friends, allies and sponsors (so if you move into research sponsored by a firm providing Venus type products and services, this could explain why Taurus is on the cusp of the tenth and save you having to argue with your tutors to make my reading correct :D) This is a very good placement being rated above the fourth house by a number of Astrologers). The ruler, Mercury is already here and in dignity, so this should be a very productive area of life. You also have the Sun, your Ascendant ruler here, so in some way your friendships may define you or you might even define your friends. There's also a chance that in some way, friends or sponsors may bring you and career together.

Finally we come to the twelfth house, which is concerned with loss, enemies, bad experiences in foreign travel and is the worst place in the chart. You have the Moon there ruling it's own sign of Cancer. Like Valens, I don't see the Moon as 'emotional'. It does have a big role in our sense of being and it rules the physical body as a whole. It signifies the mother and pregnancy and childbirth. Unlike the moder view of the Ascendant, the Moon was seen as influencing our physical appearance and how other's see us. 'The mask we wear' is the phrase that Valens used. It rules that part within us that wants to spend our life with another and the institution of marriage. It also symbolises the public as a whole.

That's a very basic first pass reading and one that might well end up having to be modified significantly as further analysis is carried out. It's a start but no more. nevertheless it give much more information than the simple Sun sign analysis. Whether that information is actually correct is another matter and in practice would involve not only the further analysis referred to above but also discussions between Astrologer and client.
 

Minderwiz

Nearly none of the delineations that I've read for planet-in-sign fit (at least my perception of) me. They performed so badly that I re-ran my chart under sidereal and got a closer match. :D

I find a lot of the delineation of planet in sign to be wrong as well. They're a mismatch cobbled together in the early twentieth century.

Going Sidereal is one way out; alternatives are going Vedic (which also uses a sidereal zodiac) or going traditional, where the planet and house is important and signs modify the extent to which a planet can realise its nature.

Good work on narrowing the time of Mikema63's birth time. BTW
 

dadsnook2000

Vedic-Joytish approach to signs

Several of the books I have indicate that Vedic-Joytish approaches to sign usage starts and ends with the basic qualities of the signs. That is, Fire lends an energetic and active influence, Earth stabilizes and lends practicality, Air lends a socializing nature, and Water empathizes and feels. The planet's effects are well known, although they have become more complex as we have become complex, and houses are well defined. When I refer to these houses I keep in mind that they are defined in terms of how you use them in the type of chart you are using. There are everyday houses, mundane houses, political houses, health houses, etc. But, it is primarily planets and houses in my opinion.
 

mikema63

Alright so here's the thing, I had no idea that the actual time you were born had such an enormous impact on even a basic reading. I didn't actually know what time of day I was born and it's taken me the better part of two days to track that information down.

Now I feel bad about this since you guys already put all this work into the chart analysis. Hopefully, I can salvage this by showing that I at least learned something.

I was able to track down through family that I was actually born at about 11:30 PM which could put my rising sign as either Aquarius or Capricorn and reading the descriptions for both I identify about infinitely more with Aquarius so I'm going with that one as my rising sign.

Aquarius is, according to google, ruled by Saturn which is also in Aquarius or by Uranus (Which one is it best to go with?). According to a quick google Aquarius as a first house makes you a rather unconventional thinker, and Saturn in Aquarius makes you a more scientifically minded and analytical thinker.

My second house is Pisces which is apparently a poor sign for my finances, luckily my husband manages the finances. This is really true for me, I'm rather bad with money.

My third house is aries which apparently means I have ideas quickly and am very argumentative about them. Mars is in aries as well which seems to compound my love of debating things.

My fourth house is taurus, so I want basic material stability? Seems like what everybody wants really so this doesn't seem to speak to me personally.

My fifth house is gemini, which also has the sun mercury and venus in it. I'm not entirely sure what the fifth house is for but it seems to cover a couple of different things like hobbies, romantic interests, and children.

6th house is cancer, which has the moon in it, which means I have a strong attatchment to my work?

7th house leo, which means I prefer to not take on lots of responsibilities in a relationship, which is probably the biggest fault in my relationship.

8th house is virgo, which suggest being careful about finances? This seems to completely contradict my second house. Jupiter is in virgo.

Ninth house Libra, I enjoy learning and have a strong sense of fairness.

10th house scorpio, aparently I have a strong ambition with any career and am drawn to careers that are "scorpio related" which apparently includes science.

11th house saggitarus, I want to be around lots of different types of people I can have debates with. Which sounds a lot like me.

12th house capricorn, I feel subconciously restricted in life? Neptune and uranus are in capricorn as well.

Did I do alright with this?
 

Minderwiz

Several of the books I have indicate that Vedic-Joytish approaches to sign usage starts and ends with the basic qualities of the signs. That is, Fire lends an energetic and active influence, Earth stabilizes and lends practicality, Air lends a socializing nature, and Water empathizes and feels. The planet's effects are well known, although they have become more complex as we have become complex, and houses are well defined. When I refer to these houses I keep in mind that they are defined in terms of how you use them in the type of chart you are using. There are everyday houses, mundane houses, political houses, health houses, etc. But, it is primarily planets and houses in my opinion.

I have a copy of the Avanajataka of Sphujidhvaja, the original Vedic treatise on Horoscipic Astrology. It is often referred to as a Greek treatise, and there's a strong argument that Hellenistic sources introduced the idea of the horoscopic chart into India. Yes there are a series of interpretations for such things as what the Sun (and all the other visible planets) mean in each Sign. They are very similar to those found in Hellenistic texts, a list of examples.

But where it differs from Modern Western Astrology is that it spends even more time looking at the position of those same planets in each of the subdivisions of a sign. And that is where Modern and Traditional (plus Vedic) differ the most. Modern Astrology plays a little with Decans, but it's not mainstream. In Vedic Astrology those subdivisions are very important. They are also very important in Hellenistic Astrology (though apart from Decans, the divisions are different). Saturn may not seem to perform well in Leo but it has it's own Bounds or Confines in Leo and when in there it is in it's own space. It can do what it wants.

When I took up Traditional Astrology, I started with Lilly and Horary. I accepted his and the Medieval view that the dignities were weighted. Domicile (Sign) rulership beats Exaltation which in turn beats Triplicity, Bounds and Decans. But taking up the course in Hellenistic Astrology, I found that those rankings did not exist. Ptolemy introduced 'scoring' but it was the same weight for each dignity. Indeed the weighting system didn't come into existence till the ninth Century, somewhere between 815 AD and 844 AD.

I don't want to digress too much, so I'll come to the point. The early Tradition and Jyotish have other divisions of the Zodiac which they treat as equally important as the Signs and did so even before Leo rewrote the meaning of Signs and introduced Sun Sign Astrology. The later tradition still allowed for different units of the Zodiac. So more than one division of the Zodiac was taken into account is assessing changes to the planets' quality. What's more those subdivisions do not seem to have the elements or modes that the Signs have. Now those divisions have been abandoned and so Signs become the only modifiers, indeed the Signs have become at least as equally important as the planets.
 

Etene

I didn't actually know what time of day I was born and it's taken me the better part of two days to track that information down. Now I feel bad about this since you guys already put all this work into the chart analysis.
Don't sweat it, and be proud that it's a lot better than what many people have to work with. There's a whole category of techniques for rectification which aim to take biographical information as a basis for pushing an estimated time up or down by a few minutes to get a chart that agrees with known facts before making future predictions. Needless to say, astrologers argue tirelessly for fun over the validity of rectified times.
reading the descriptions for both I identify about infinitely more with Aquarius so I'm going with that one as my rising sign.
If you can say that other people would agree with that identification, it's probably right. The question would probably be easier to resolve by figuring out if the Seventh House is more sensible under Cancer or Leo.
Aquarius is, according to google, ruled by Saturn which is also in Aquarius or by Uranus (Which one is it best to go with?).
Esteemed astrologer Rob Hand has spoken salty words in interviews regarding the use of outer planets as sign rulers. I think it is best to simply neglect the outer planets as an initiate. Many astrologers did a fine job before AD 1781.
6th house is cancer, which has the moon in it, which means I have a strong attatchment to my work?
Be mindful with the houses that a few things have "gone wrong" over time. One is that the classical significations don't always apply today. Another is that the "bad" houses have been made a little more nice, often by drawing a parallel between the ordinals of the houses and signs. So, modern references will say that the Sixth is about work (drawing a parallel from Virgo being considered a practical and industrious sign), but when you go back to old texts, the Sixth is Kake Tuche, the house of bad luck, and it signifies your succeptability to disease (among other things, but save that for your horary lessons).
Did I do alright with this?
It's a start. Did you consider all these for the alternative of Capricorn as ascendant to verify that it is not consistent with known information? You could be late Capricorn, still have a First House Saturn, but it would alter Seventh House for sure, and your Sixth-Twelth axis is really close to the solstices, so I wouldn't discount a possibility if those both seemed to be "one sign off" as Cancer/Capricorn or Gemini/Sagittarius under either ascendant.