Why do new artists change the suit names?

avalonian

It occurs to me that if nobody had ever changed the suit names, we wouldn't have any decks with a suit of Pentacles.

As long as there are four suits representing earth, air, fire and water, plus a Major Arcana, I'm happy.

:)
 

MagsStardustBlack

With The Victorian Fairy Tarot, you have Spring Summer Autumn Winter. And these seem to easily represent the traditional suits. I find this really easy to read, there is a very clear and understandable explanation of these seasonal suits and how they still represent the traditional meanings and elements. I don't see a problem. As long as its easily relatable, I enjoy the creative artistic aspect. Also the original tarot, whatever that is, I assume was created by an artist, that was his or her artistic expression, why should other artists not also have their stamp.... within reason?
 

Luna-Ocean

It occurs to me that if nobody had ever changed the suit names, we wouldn't have any decks with a suit of Pentacles.

As long as there are four suits representing earth, air, fire and water, plus a Major Arcana, I'm happy.

:)

And isn't nice to be able to have a choice on what the reader can use? the suits have never been a problem for me but i do get tired with seeing the same old ideas, i think there is room for these new creator's to add something more challenging and different to a new Tarot structure that can be fun to use.
 

karen0205

Even if you don't like the suit names, the artist did make 78 images for the entire deck. That's a lot of hard work and commitment. Even if the artist knows nil to nothing about reading tarot, doing that many images takes a lot of time and effort.

EXACTLY - I don't want a deck from an artist that knows nothing about tarot.
I can appreciate the art but how can you spend all that time doing 78 images
for an entire deck and know nothing about what you are illustrating? How
much of themselves are really being put into the artwork if they don't have
any connection to the standard deck meanings? Those are great for collectors.
I even have some decks like that. They are beautiful. I'm not talking about
decks for collectors. I am referring to decks where the artist wants people
to really use the deck. Decks where the author or artist say they have
connections to tarot and are readers themselves. Why make it difficult?

As a reader and speaking for myself, I don't want a deck with new names
for the suits. I want to pick it up and use it without having to invest time
in another person's interpretation of the suits. I guess I am connected to
the RWS original deck and the fact that there were specific reasons for
the names of the suits. I like new artwork but to change the names of the
suits seems to change the basic framework of the deck. JMO
 

Luna-Ocean

People have the opinion that if a creator has not kept with the original formats like the Rider waite structure then they must not possibly understood about the use of Tarot? why are people so against trying to create something fresh and new... how do we really know if it was their lack of Tarot expertise that made these creator's try other ideas instead, i would think these creators had several years of experience before trying to come up with their own brand of creativity to realize that not going with the typical old style suit names is the be all and end all?
 

rylla

I am always disappointed when I open a new deck and the artist has changed the names of the suits. It's really frustrating to try and use a new deck that the artwork is too loosely based on the RWS system already and then they put some funky names for the suits. I find it annoying and creates and aversion to buying it for me. I want to be able to pick up a deck and use it right away.

I agree. If i look at a card and recognize what card is right away, I don't care how it is called, I don't read its name anyway. But if in a reading all the cards seem a puzzle and I have to look at their description plus at the LBW for clarification - the magic is gone. And it has nothing to do with the fact how many hours an artist put to create the deck. That's not the point. Even if I want to read with a deck intuitively, I like to know what tarot card am I reading. Otherwise I feel like I am reading an oracle.

Of course, I could learn, for example, that fire is a bat or air is a butterfly. That's in case if there were only 20 decks on the market. But there are hundreds. I learned this, I learned that (just to be forgotten in a year or so). With so many decks I do not want to keep learning any more associations - interesting to read about them once - that's enough. For the above reasons I also prefer decks that have the wands-cups-swords-pentacles illustrated on the cards (and not a folk or a knife, so on). It saves time.
 

Amsonia

I like that we live in an age that both those that like the tradition and those who like something more modern, can find many decks to suit their taste.

I think I tend to prefer my two decks that have different suits than the traditional, the Victorian Fairy in particular resonates with me with the four suits of the seasons.

But I understand that if you learned on a traditional deck, it would be frustrating to see a deck with artwork you liked but with the suits different than you are used to...it is easy to see both sides of this discussion, and again, I'm just glad that decks in both designs are so easily obtainable...
 

Zephyros

I think that, like anything else, the amount of care and knowledge that goes into a deck is obvious, and it goes for changing things around, as well. It also matters if you can justify your choices in a way that will be accessible to other people.

We've all seen decks with bad artwork that are also conceptually poorly thought out. In these cases the deck's creator may as well just say that they changed suit names because they thought it would be cool or interesting. This category may also include "art" decks that serve to show the artist's skill and imagination. This isn't bad exactly, at least not in and of itself, but does serve a very specific purpose which perhaps isn't strictly Tarot-related.

On the other hand, there are decks that are truly unified in concept, where every element is well thought out both in internal consistency and in relation to all the other elements in the deck. In these cases, changes are truly steps forward in the development of ideas, and can be very exciting to contemplate. These kinds of decks usually have reams of informed justifications for any changes made. Even if you don't agree with these changes, you can at least accept that a valid point has been made.

So I wouldn't say that any changes in suit names necessarily means the artist had no knowledge of Tarot, but I do like to see some thought behind the work being done. It needn't say anything about the artwork but with the cohesion of the idea the deck is trying to put forth.

So basically, if you're putting orbs instead of coins (while keeping them Earth), that's great, I just want to know why. If it's just because orbs is more New Age-y, that's kind of a dull reason, and chances are a deck like that won't interest me.

Lastly, not all decks are on the same level, and this has nothing to do with how good they are or how good the readings they give are. It's like the difference between "The Little Engine that Could" and "War and Peace." "The Little Engine that Could" is a great story, really it is. It's touching, it teaches an important moral, it's written well and has excellent pacing. But as good as it is, it simply isn't Tolstoy, and will never be. It doesn't have the complexity, breadth or grandeur of War and Peace. I love bang-bang action flicks, but atthesame time I can recognize the Citizen Kane is "quality," although I enjoy both genres. Same with Tarot decks. Something like the Halloween deck is meant to be fun and enjoyable. Whether one's readings with it are deep or not, that still doesn't change the fact that it isn't made of the same stuff as the Thoth or Hermetic. In the case of the Halloween Tarot, fun, "pop" changes are funny, cool and self-aware of what the deck is, and its nice to see something not take itself seriously. Some decks are "just" nice, and that's fine, and changes are fine and welcome and good. In this case, give me leaves, orbs, bats, jewels or whatever, it doesn't matter.
 

blue_fusion

From an artist's perspective, say I've this great idea for a steampunk-themed deck, but people also recommended to me that they wanted traditional suit titles so I put in seven of swords when the imagery is showing guns (which is more relevant to the theme, but at the same time relates to the feel of the suit) and then you get people saying this is silly, where are the swords?! Because, really, you can't please everybody.

A lot of the decks with suit changes I think are obvious - obvious enough to read with. In these cases, it doesn't take a great deal of effort or imagination to associate the new suits with their traditional counterparts. Those that aren't, and have a book dedicated to its imagery's study - well why would you buy those if you aren't into studying that particular deck's background?

And besides, changes to the deck's format have been done in the past numerous times. What of the Mantegna, Minchiate, Sola Busca, the added courts in the Cary-Yale, among many, many others? For that matter why use Hierophant when Pope has more historical precedence? Even the RWS and the Thoth were the results of such changes.
 

Luna-Ocean

A lot of the decks with suit changes I think are obvious - obvious enough to read with. In these cases, it doesn't take a great deal of effort or imagination to associate the new suits with their traditional counterparts. Those that aren't, and have a book dedicated to its imagery's study - well why would you buy those if you aren't into studying that particular deck's background?

.

There have been lots of interesting replies to this thread, i also agree with this when i buy a new deck i'm always expecting to use the typical elements like swords for air and cups for water, but there are also some readers that i know who might read with different associations like Wands as Air and Swords for Fire, so there are some readers that might read differently without paying to much attention to how these elements are read accordingly? and in the same ways just like these new creator's that have designed a new modernized structure to their own decks.