The Fool & XIII - and the Golden Mean

In another thread, Namadev mentions the three 'ends' of the Tarot being I the Bateleur, XXI le Monde, and the un-numbered Fool. This harkens back to a long tradition in game-playing, also reminiscent of the same in the modern ongoing version of the card-game of Tarot.

In other places in this Forum and elsewhere, mention has been made of the deep connection which iconographically exists between the Fool and Death: not only does the one have name but no number, and the other number but no name (in the more traditional version of the Marseille), but the card images are able to be virtually superimposed, as if the Fool gives flesh to the skeletal figure of XIII.

In his Alphabetic Masquerade, Filipas also argues for the Hebrew letter associations of the first letter Alef with the Bateleur, the thirteenth letter Mem with XIII, and the twenty-first letter Shin with XXI the World.

In yet another thread in the Kabalah section, I also mention that the mother letters are, within the sequence, arranged according to Golden Proportion: as first, as thirteenth, and as twenty-first.

The twenty-second letter, Tau, also makes sense to link to bony structures, as this letter is at times also linked to Saturn - hence another possible connection which may be made in reflection between the Fool and XIII.

Part of the interesting connection between these are that by placing the Fool at the Golden Mean of the numbered sequence, a super-imposition between the Fool and card XIII is also made.

In addition, it shows how the Fool can be the 'end'...

posted by JMDIn his Alphabetic Masquerade, Filipas also argues for the Hebrew letter associations of the first letter Alef with the Bateleur, the thirteenth letter Mem with XIII, and the twenty-first letter Shin with XXI the World.

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One form of the letter Tau is as a cross, like an 'x', suggesting in form the four animals and the figure in the centre. One of its meanings is 'seal', and in the SY the permutations of the name YHV are used to 'seal' space, and the letters of the name YHV = 21. Of a brief look through a short dictionary words beginning with Tav that might fit are world [TBL], Bull/ox [TAV, TVR] related to TAVR 'utmost bounds' ]the vesica shaped border as outermost boundaries? {also TVTzAH, 'farthest borders'}], TVK, 'middle, centre, within', TM, 'perfect one, blameless man' [one of the four tetramorph].
Of Mem Mark has at least four good hits with ATU XIII, although MVTh 'death' is also 'to put to death, to surely die' and may also be said to apply to person sentenced to hang. Of the hanged man and Mem notable are MAL, root of the words for 'traitor', 'lifted up' and 'upside down'. A brief perusal of a fairly short dictionary finds us MVT, MVTH, 'stave, poles, bars, yokes, upon a staff'; MTTH branches, rods, staffs; MTzLH pillars, stumps'; MchA hanged; MYTR cords ropes; MVQR snared, trapped; MRH rebel; MVRH deceiver, traitor; MV extortioner, thief; MShPT sentenced, prescribed judgement/punishment'; MTTH downward; MVSR bonds, fetters, bands, chastisement, punishment, warning; MVShKH cords, bonds'; MWRD going downwards, hanging, descending. MZVLH side posts; MVTzQ vexation, anguish, constraint.
I have already provided a list for aleph. Such lists prove nothing. In order to prove his thesis I think Mark would need to show a statistically significant prevalence of a certain pattern, in order to evaluate the statistical elements then I believe it would be necessary to provide a list of any words applicable to the iconography of each card [which ever letter they begin with]. I suspect he has made an error in calculating the statistical significance of his word lists and that in fact there is no historical Marseille/Hebrew lexicon connection as he portrays it.

The twenty-second letter, Tau, also makes sense to link to bony structures, as this letter is at times also linked to Saturn - hence another possible connection which may be made in reflection between the Fool and XIII.

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When, where and by whom is Saturn attributed to Tau, was this attribution made prior to circa 1800 in a period applicable to the development of the Marseille?

Kwaw

the Golden Ratio

Hi,
If we keep the numbers :
22 and 13, the golden proportion is Egyptian and can be found in the square pyramid of Kheops as :
220 : 136 = Phi

If we consider Medieval mathematics such as Laurent of Pise or Fibonacci( because he was the son of Bonifaccio) who had learnt the Mathematics with the greatest Arab mastersthen we consider 21 and 13.
He writes the famous "Liber Abaci" in 1202.

In the Fibonnaci serie, the Golden proportion is :
21:13 = Phi


"Food for thought"

Alain

A table of fractions derived from the Fibonnaci series increasingly approaches the #Golden proportion Phi. Phi of course is indeterminate decimal. Infinite in size it is usually reduced to a minimum of three decimal places, reached with the fraction 21/34 [.618+]:

1/1 [1.000+]
1/2 [.500-]
2/3 [.666+]
3/5 [.600-]
5/8 [.625+]
8/13 [.615-]
13/21 [.619+]
21/34 [.618-]

If speaking about Fibonnaci and the Tarot we should not forego mentioning that it was Fibonacci's text that first popularised the '0' [which had also been introduced to the Jews of the west through Ibn Ben Ezra]. And if we wish to relate the Fibonnaci series to the numerolgy of the tarot then I think we should also note the series starts with a zero, one is the second item, then each successive term is the sum of the preceding two:

0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,……..etc.

Via the Golden Section of course, we can also divide the circle into 10, and 10 being a the sum 1-4 gives us also possible reference to the four suits 1-10.

Question re: Placing the fool over death, if we do this on the cirlce then we have only 21 units not 22, don't we therein lose the Pi ratio 22/7?

Kwaw

Re: Re: The Fool & XIII - and the Golden Mean

Namadev said:

jmd said:

but the card images are able to be virtually superimposed, as if the Fool gives flesh to the skeletal figure of XIII.

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Interesting in respect to another thread elsewhere where someone states that in one of the Marseille decks it appears as if the dog has torn the flesh, rather than the pants [if I remember it correctly, can't find it at the moment].

Kwaw

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jmd said:

Part of the interesting connection between these are that by placing the Fool at the Golden Mean of the numbered sequence, a super-imposition between the Fool and card XIII is also made.

In addition, it shows how the Fool can be the 'end'...

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Jmd, could you explain what you mean by 'placing the Fool at the Golden Mean of the numbered sequence' please? Everyone else here seems to understand you, but I don't. Do you mean at the end? In the middle? --Thanks for clarifying.

Kwaw, Diana has suggested to me that Le Mat actually represents death in TdM, which--if true--explains a great deal. --The dog eating the flesh, the flesh falling off, "check-mate" as a possible translation of the word Mat . . . not to mention the way the two figures (skeleton & fool) seem to fit together . . . This idea is new to me (though perhaps not to others) & I find it very exciting.

I would like to understand what this thread is actually about, though, as well (this Golden Mean idea).

Math and Devil

Hi,

I have never been able to infirm or confirm a strange literary data from 1300 linking together the Math and the Devil.
Nevertheless, it is interesting to quote the entry .

"Histoire du Jeu d'échecs"
"Un certain théologien écrivait en 1300 : « Celui qui succombe
à la tentation du péché sera toujours mis en échec par le diable et
perdra son âme au mat s'il ne sait pas se protéger. »

If the quote is accurate, we would a literary evidence specific of
Devil and Fool maybe linked to the game of Chess.

The expression :
"être mis en échec " could refer to the game of Chess
"par le Diable" : could be a metaphor for overwelmed by the Devil
"perdre son *ame" : to loose one's soul
"au mât" : could refer to the Fool

If the translation given is right, then there could have been a known link to the two trumps in 1300 :archaïc proto-tarot?

More inquiry seems necessary

Alain

This is sooo interesting! it makes me feel like i have a lot to learn

These are indeed intersting connections, and the moral allegories considered in Chess are some I would personally like to investigate further with time...

With regards to the Golden Mean, this was geometrically known since at least Ancient Greek times, and very likely before (there are records which suggest this). Basically, if one takes a line of, for example, one metre (or one yard - makes no difference for the purposes of the example), then there exists a point along the line such that the length of the smallest section divided by the length of the larger section is exactly the same proportion as the length of the larger section divided by the whole metre.

This occurs precisely at (-1+5^(1/2))/2, or approximately 0.618 metres (ie, a little under 2/3rds of the way along the line).

The Fibonacci series (and the Lucas series) are the two more famous ones. There is an earlier version of what has come to be called the Fibonacci series which begins with just 1, the ensuing numbers being the same (as there is nothing before one, the next number is 1, each succeeding number from then on being the sum of the previous two).

In terms of the Golden Proportion or Mean, what is interesting is that as one moves up the series, a number divided by its previous one in the series approximates the Golden mean ever more closely. This occurs, of course, with any series which is generated by the addition of the successive numbers, irrespective as to which two numbers one begins with (for example, one could begin, instead of 0 and 1, with 79 and 3). After a short while, the Golden proportion will be quite closely approximated.

Describing it with words looks more complicated than geometrically drawing the same, by the way.

Kwaw rightly brings a criticism to what I mentioned by asking about the assumed correlation between Tau and Saturn. Even were I to provide someone's relevant writing, this was not the point. There were certainly various planetary attributions made between the double letters and the planets, some which seem more sensible than others.

What I was reflecting on was rather the reverse: having made the attribution of Tau to the Mat, and to Mem and Death, what other aspect could then be brought out in reflection? Here I make the same kind of additional jumps in my own reflection which is not warranted by the Tarot as presented, but rather simply further logically consistent points which emerge from considerations of the Fool and XIII placed together (which I tend not to pair together, by the way, though can also see a deep image-similarity connection).

For the sake of answering the question, however, I will point out that in at least some versions of the Sefer Yetzirah, Tau is connected with the Sabbath. Connected with the Sabbath, it is therefore connected with Saturn (Saturday) - even though the range of planetary attributions range generally from Jupiter to the Moon and Venus. The connection to the Sabbath with this last of the doubles thus makes sense for pre-18th century reflections along those lines - though whether anyone did such I am uncertain.

Also, placing the Fool over XIII for the purposes of unveiling a particular possible connection does not mean that therefore the Fool disappears: there are still 22 Atouts - whether or not one wants to also make use of the Tarot to reflect an approximate value for Pi (another irrational expressed by the rational 22/7, as Phi' is by 0.618).

With regards to the Golden Mean, one could argue that it may be expected that Temperance would have occupied that position had such mathematical considerations been importantly reflected in the sequence (hence be numbered XIII instead of XIIII). This to me makes a better argument against the case I make in my original post - especially given that is would then also have the water-flow indicated by its then plausible letter attribution of Mem. But that is not the case.

On a different point raised, I would suggest that there are other reasons - more important than statistical ones from my personal perspective - why for myself allocating an alphabetic sequence from Alef to Tau to cards from the Bateleur to the Fou make sense, but I suppose that is the subject of another thread...