Leaving the querent with bad news

Zephyros

The chances of winning the lottery are very slim. However those chances get even more slim if you don't play. Now I would never recommend that anyone play the lottery, but as a metaphor for going out and trying it serves. You probably won't win the lottery (or get everything you want in any situation) but your failure is assured if you do nothing. Rather than "does he love me" an empowering question is how do I make him love me, or something along those lines.
 

Michael Sternbach

Empowering people is not about telling them only nicey-nice stuff. It's about believing that they do have a degree of control over their destiny, and showing them ways to make best of their situation, whatever it may be.
 

MagsStardustBlack

EyeAmEye said:
The only real empowerment that takes place in a tarot reading is giving the querent information. A tarot reader only realistically empowers a reader with CHOICE.
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Agree, empowering a person is being congruent, giving them the reading, the knowledge they seek, yet not giving advice, advice affects the internal locus. Giving advice can sway a person who uses there external locus. The only real empowerment is experiential, the person has to find there own answers within, make there own decisions based on their own feelings within there frame of reference. Autonomous Choice is the only real and lasting empowerment. And this is what we are academically taught in psychotherapy at degree level.
 

danieljuk

I had a reading that came up this year for someone where every card was negative, it was a difficult reading. I decided to message a friend I trusted to discuss it with them, I didn't want to deal with this reading to be honest! I decided that I had to be honest and this was the message the cards came up with, the friend suggested to just say what you see! I did go through it and post it and the person said it was spot on and it gave them some hope actually. Being honest was the right way to go with that.

I truly believe that every tarot card has an element of giving us *something*, hope, a little optimism, eventual change, none of them are a bleak ending, something comes after that. They are learning experiences. I bought a reading for myself some years ago from a pro reader which was so negative! They kept saying in the email of the reading that these are all changeable events and I think that is quite important. This "could happen" but you can make changes or be prepared for what comes up.

I don't think you empower someone by just telling them what they want to hear or only positive things. Life isn't all positive. You carefully explain what could be coming up and you empower them by offering choices and options. They may not take them but you have given them ways of dealing with it. I would always now do my reading on what I see, but I would never leave someone feeling worse than before the reading.

If you do get a negative reading or constantly negative readings, they won't always be negative. things in your life change and the readings also change, just finally I am getting positive readings in spreads. It really matches what is going on in your life.
 

Sulis

Nineveh said:
Empowering delivery of bad news in a tarot reading? Hmm, let's see. Normal: The man you are hoping to marry is actually already married and his wife is currently pregnant.

"Empowering": Yes, I see the guy in the cards. Are you aware that he is married and the woman is pregnant? Don't worry you are better than them. SOME DAY the man of your dreams will FIND YOU and I am certain that you will have a family with him.

A person doesn't fall out of love overnight. When the reality of the empowerment speech is realized (no man for the querent and only God knows when he will arrive) sets in she will soon become disempowered because the truth can be brutally painful.
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Nineveh said:
No, I think it is you who is misunderstanding both the meaning as well as my argument. My responses are geared towards other responses rather than the word 'empower'. For instance the feeling of the obligation to empower (which I do not feel)...also the fact that the thread starter had mentioned that the reading left her feeling disempowered and placed the blame on the reader. I was mostly focused on understanding and discussing the psychological aspect of a card reading between the reader and querent.
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I don't think I did misunderstand your argument...
Your post that I've quoted above where you describe an 'empowering reading' from your point of view and state why you don't think empowering readings are the way to read is not an empowering reading at all.
And it was this post that caused me to suggest that you weren't really 'getting' what people mean when they talk about giving an empowering reading....

You've said you don't agree with me and that's fine, I'm not getting into a 'you said this, I said that' type of conversation but your post clearly shows that we're on different pages when we talk about something being empowering..
The example of an empowering reading that you give here really is not empowering at all in my opinion but is glossing over the bad news and trying to make the querant feel better by telling her everything will be OK in the end...
Giving me a dictionary definition of 'empowering' does not change or qualify the example you gave at all.
 

Sulis

Moderator note

A couple of off topic, personal posts have been removed...

Please try to stick to the topic of the thread 'Leaving the querant with bad news'.

Thanks.

Sulis - moderator
 

Nineveh

Sulis said:
I don't think I did misunderstand your argument...
Your post that I've quoted above where you describe an 'empowering reading' from your point of view and state why you don't think empowering readings are the way to read is not an empowering reading at all.
And it was this post that caused me to suggest that you weren't really 'getting' what people mean when they talk about giving an empowering reading....

You've said you don't agree with me and that's fine, I'm not getting into a 'you said this, I said that' type of conversation but your post clearly shows that we're on different pages when we talk about something being empowering..
The example of an empowering reading that you give here really is not empowering at all in my opinion but is glossing over the bad news and trying to make the querant feel better by telling her everything will be OK in the end...
Giving me a dictionary definition of 'empowering' does not change or qualify the example you gave at all.
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How can what I've typed make the querent feel better in the end. Telling someone that she can find her own husband should give th equerent the CONFIDENCE to move on from her dreadful situation. I've never stated that she would feel better, in fact I've state just the opposite.

You don't think it would be an empowering reading because you don't understand the terminology. You are utilizing the word empowering from a biased point of view so naturally the dictionary definition (what other definition would there be) wouldn't change your mind about my example. Really, I'm not trying to convince you I am simply defending my position.

But, I get it.

Have a good day!
 

Michael Sternbach

MagsStardustBlack said:
Agree, empowering a person is being congruent, giving them the reading, the knowledge they seek, yet not giving advice, advice affects the internal locus. Giving advice can sway a person who uses there external locus. The only real empowerment is experiential, the person has to find there own answers within, make there own decisions based on their own feelings within there frame of reference. Autonomous Choice is the only real and lasting empowerment. And this is what we are academically taught in psychotherapy at degree level.
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Well, yes, that's (at least theoretically) true in psychotherapy. Let them figure it all out themselves, that's one of the reasons why the process is often so slow... This is not to say that there is no value to this principle. (I would know all this because I was working in a psychiatric practice during six years as a Bach Flower therapist, astrologer and Tarot reader.) However, the cards are often giving clear and concrete advice regarding what (not) to do, and that's cool, too. When reading for others, it's your job to convey their message to the querent in an empowering fashion.
 

SunChariot

Ace said:
After reading and contributing to this thread by empress_woo_woo http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=228886 I got to thinking.

We really have a responsibility as readers to find GOOD NEWS in a reading or at least comfort for bad readings. I didn't get into this discussion about using Tarot to tell the future ( http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=225763) but I (myself) truly believe that the future is OURS to create. People so often sit down and ask me to tell them their future. Mostly because they don't have anything else to ask and also because they have heard (from everywhere) that that is what we do. Sigh.

Do you really want to believe that your future is sewn up and you CAN'T do anything to change it--good or bad?

As I told Empress_woo_woo, I believe that when we read, sometimes we try to see FORWARD on the Askasic record. This must be done carefully or we will see (and predict) bad things without realizing we can change them later for the better. Without sounding condescending, I say it is a rookie mistake, including myself who has done that when I was first learning (and stopped reading for 12 years because of it!)

The best advice I think I would give a beginner (and come to think of it, I am going to do that in the Advice? thread around here somewhere....) is to look for good news and not to believe it is all bad. Example: At one point (at a PARTY!) a man asked about his unborn child. It looked bad and on tactfully asking about it, he confirmed that it was. There wasn't much good news to give. They were trying to save the fetus (and he was nodding along with me as I spoke) but finally I asked the cards for something (anything!) good to say. I pointed at him and said, "you tell your wife it wasn't anything she did, sometimes these things just happen." He sat back and looked at me, "Thanks, everyone keeps asking what my wife did to cause this." (I never found out the outcome or what exactly was going on but I think it was a heart issue that would not let the baby survive until birth.) It was just a "well, it happens." and I gave him some comfort, which is good enough sometimes. I was not SURE it would end badly--but It was not at all good. Maybe 40% of survival. But I found comfort for him and THAT is our responsibility.

So, when you read, look for good news as well as the answer to their question. And be careful, you querents, what you ask. To ask for the WHOLE future is too much and you will be annoyed by vague responses from the reader. When you ask for something special, you must realize that the REAL question is HOW do I get the outcome I want? Not just WILL I get it? Since we all are here to strive for the outcomes we want.

I hope I made sense.
Barb
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I agree very much with this post. We Barb's seem to think alike (My real name is Barbara, aka Barb).

I believe being a reader requires empathy. That means both that you have to consider why the person has come to you, AND to think if you were in their shoes what is the best most helpful way that someone could give you the same message.

It can be presumed that people come to us because they want to feel better about something in their lives. What they need to feel better may be just knowledge. But if something comes up in a reading that may feel unpleasant, I believe it is our responsibility to give them what the need. To my mind a reading where the querent leaves feeling worse about themselves of their lives for whatever reason, that reading failed. We are there to help.

That means not just saying X that you don't want to happen is going to happen and tough luck. It means finding what they need to know to feel hope, empowerment or do see the good side of what it happened. Even if you have to pull another card at the end to ask, I believe we have that responsibility. Like doctors, I think we need to do no harm. People need to feel better, never worse after having a reading.

And to think what ways would be most helpful to you to receive this news, and to try to give them that.

Babs
 

SunChariot

Sulis said:
The example of an empowering reading that you give here really is not empowering at all in my opinion but is glossing over the bad news and trying to make the querant feel better by telling her everything will be OK in the end...
Giving me a dictionary definition of 'empowering' does not change or qualify the example you gave at all.
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Just to add in my opinion here. Telling someone that all will be ok in the end (IF that is actually something that you see in the cards) can be very empowering.

IF the person is so stressed that they can't make a move . Giving them what they need to calm down can be what they most need to get back to themselves, let the fears go and take a deep breath and take the next step. Sometimes that can be just what they need to feel their empowerment again.

Babs
 
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