Diurnal and Nocturnal

rainwolf

Interested audiences (ok, mainly astrid O and me) want to know how to interpret nocturnal and dirunal. I hope you dont mind, but I did a search and copied and pasted what has been previously posted. If there is anything to add that would be great.

Minderwiz said:
From:Im a leo and need a reading
The second comment also draws on the idea of planets being in the right section of the chart - being 'in sect'. There are three diurnal or day planets that enjoy being above the horizon during daylight. The Sun is the first and your Sun is high in the Sky and in Leo as well. The second is Jupiter, which is close to the IC, almost as far away from the Sun as it can get, and the third is Saturn, also close to the IC. Saturn is less malefic when above the horizon - and Saturn in your chart is not a force for good.

There are three nocturnal planets, the Moon, Mars and Venus. All three would be better below the horizon in a day chart but all three are actually above it. I'd probably take this as an indication that you don't easily fit into expectations rather than you are unfortunate because of it (though I can see that not fitting into expectations could be unfortunate in some cultures). Mercury can take on either sect, day or night but there's clear evidence that Mercury as Morning Star (as in your chart) was seen as a more 'masculine' placement. Simply living the lifestyle that you do represents something of a challenge to traditional views as to how you should behave as a woman. I'm sure you will get a lot of support from the female members of this forum who would rightly (from our cultural view) applaud your stance.


From:A very sad case
I have made use of the difference between Day (diurnal) and Night (nocturnal) charts.

This is a Day Chart (the Sun is above the horizon). Some planets work more easily in Day time compared to Night. Saturn is a diurnal planet so in a day chart it is best above the horizon (which it is in this case) and best in a dirunal sign (Fire or Air) which it is. This situation where a planet is in a chart of its own sect, placed according to sect and in a sign of its own sect is called Hayz.

Other planets work better at night - Mars is a nocturnal planet and works best below the horizon in a day chart. Unfortunately here it is the most elevated planet. The Arab Astrologers would prefer Mars to be in a Masculine sign (Fire or Air) but it is in Taurus. This suggests that Mars energy will have difficulty being used.

Diurnal planets are Sun, Jupiter and Saturn. Nocturnal planets are Moon, Mars and Venus. Mercury is generally neutral.

Can you find someone's time of birth by using these methods or does the placement have significance, or both?

Pls note that this is not directed at Minderwiz (well, solely) but the quotations I found above certainly interested me (and astrid O :)).
 

Grigori

Please forgive the astrologically incompetent, but does this mean that for a person born in the daytime (i.e. me :D ) the nocturnal planets are expected/desired to be below the horizon? And the reverse for someone born at night?

How can you tell where the horizon is in a natal chart? (no doubt this is a stupid question, but I really want to know so am asking
 

rainwolf

Well, the first question can go to someone else.

Correct me if im wrong, but the horizon is shown my the ascendant and descendant. I'm a nocturnal birth, my sun being about 11 degrees below the descendant, hence I was born after sunset.
 

Deszroo

Well it all gets very interesting when you start to look at it. For instance with Saturns associations with endings, wanning, cold. Its hard for me to imagine Saturn as diurnal qualitied (expect where its seen at top of the heap/above board)...while Cancer is noctural yet its part the hot spot in terms of South;Sun. Not only are planets Diurnal or Nocturnal but the zodiac signs and of course which side of the road your planets reside..and there are four quadrants. It can be tricky...can't get thrown off by a "Am" or "Pm" connotations necessarily or day or night visually.. a 1am birth.. its considered a Noct...5 pm birth is Dirun.

But what does it all mean?. Well, one way is to think of the Diurnal/Nocturnal might be like how we think of elements. Moon is considered water, dark related. In the sign Aries would be seen as some difficultly as Aries is fire, dry, light, outgoing...water dampens fire. Mars in Aries..a bit better, albiet pushing the envelope of fire with fire. Yet the contradiction is that the Moon, Aries, and Mars are all Nocturnal...which is to say somewhat "Yin" associated.

Consider Sun in Leo. Per the Diurnal/Noctural standpoint Leo is (Noc), Sun (Diur), 3rd house (Noc). and not a great combination for the Sun. But if you think of the popular Leo connotations; firey, dramatic, lively, Sun is Leos "planet"/light....far from Nocturnal. Yet, Leo is technically below the horizon anyway...does better as big fish/small pond...above horizons suggests larger fish/ponds and issues that might overwhelm Leo more personal tendencies. Yet a balanced leo utilizing its aquarius (Diurnal/above horizon) axis would seem to do well nonetheless.

There are many other considerations to look at but Diurnal/Nocturnal is yet another way of figuring out the various qualities, potential strengths, and weakness.


Links
http://skyscript.co.uk/gl/firdar.html

http://skyscript.co.uk/gl/diurnal.html


Diurnal planets - Saturn, Jupiter, Sun.

Diurnal signs - Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces


Desz
 

prudence

Wow! Dezroo, that is soooo helpful, Thanks HEAPS. So, does that mean my Moon in leo in 5th house isn't such a bad fit after all? I had thought having my moon in Leo was an "uncomfortable" contradiction. But, if the Moon is a nocturnal planet and Leo is a nocturnal sign, then it is a better "fit" than I had once thought. edited to say: My sun is in Pis in 12th house, above the horizon, a diurnal birth. With Moon in leo in 5th house, below horizon.

When you say a" balanced leo utilizing its aquarius axis, (above the horizon) would seem to do well..." do you mean, one who has one's merc above the horizon, in a sign like aquarius?
 

paradoxx

information of nocturnal and diurnal venus and mercury are referenced @ http://www.khaldea.com/ (near the bottom of the page) along with a great deal of other information.
 

Minderwiz

For those of you who want to pursue this in more depth there is an excellent short book by Robert Hand, titled 'Night & Day' published by ARHAT, priced $10.95

Firstly, you can tell at a glance whether it is a diurnal or nocturnal chart. In a diurnal chart the Sun is above the horizon - that is it is in houses 12 to 7 inclusive. For a nocturnal chart the Sun is in houses 6 to 1 inclusive.

It's not clear historically whether this system based on Sect(ion) or the chart in which the Sun lies, is an alternative to the dignities by sign, or a complementary one.

Generally a planet is stronger - in the sense that it is more able to fulfill it's role, if it is in a section of the chart that matches its character - with the exception of the two malefics, Mars and Saturn because we would like them to be less malefic.

Jupiter and the Moon are quite straightforward - Jupiter is a diurnal planet because its characteristics are Hot and Moist (the Sun strengthens it's heat in a Day chart but at night it is colder than it would like to be. In a day chart it's warmth and moisture encourage growth (of all things) - in a night chart it cannot do this as easily.

The Moon is cold and wet (much more wet than cold) it is best in a night chat - where its reflective and nurturing powers can work.

At this point it is worth adding a further distinction - placement. Because Jupiter is a diurnal planet, it should be above the horizon during the day - this strengthens it still further and below the horizon at night. Thus Jupiter in say the 5th house in a night chart is a little bit stronger than Jupiter in the tenth.

Similarly the Moon is stronger in a nocturnal chart if it is above the horizon (12th through to seventh). And in a diurnal chart it should be below the horizon. Clearly it is possible for the Moon to be above the horizon in a day chart or below in a night chart, as anyone who has seen the Moon during the day should realise. So if you have a nocturnal birth with the Moon above the horizon it should emphasise the Moon in your chart. Even if it is below the horizon in a nocturnal birth, the Moon is still the Sect ruler - that is the Moon rules night charts and should be treated as stronger than the Sun.

For the Two Malefics, the situation is partly reveresed. Mars is Hot (very Hot) and Dry and therefore is more dangerous during the day, when it's heat can be harmful (the impetuous, agressive, ignoring danger Mars). So Mars functions better in the chart (from the point of view of the native) if it is cooled down. Mars therefore is treated as a nocturnal planet - the cool of night reduces its intensity. Virtually the same reason is put forward for making Mars ruler of Scorpio - it is cooled and moistened and thereore more amenable. So interpret Mars at night as a more focussed and controllable agression which will do less harm.

Saturn is very cold and dry. Saturn at night is thus even colder and therefore more dangerous - it introduces fear of action, melancholic thought, imprisonment in structures (real or of thought). Saturn during the day is warmed up and threfore brings out it's best - the disciplined, planned, steady progress - learning from experience, etc. Think of a lizard, at night it is totally reduced to inaction, in the day it warms and basks in the Sun.

The same point applies in terms of placement for Mars and Saturn. Mars is better in a night chart, it is better still if it is above the horizon in such a chart (and below the horizon in a day chart).

I'll deal with Mercury and Venus separately because their situation depends on where they are relative to the Sun.

I'll end here on one last point about position. There is a third element (though the weakest) to sect. A diurnal planet functions better in a traditional masculine sign (Fire or Air) and a nocturnal planet functions better in a traditional feminine sign - (Earth or Water) - though there is some dispute about this in the case of Mars, where the Greeks took Mars as a masculine planet and wanted it in a masculine sign.

If a planet is in a chart of its own sect, placed according to sect and in a sign of its own sect, then it is said to be in Hayz - a condition akin to being in its own sign. Thus Jupiter, in a day chart in the ninth house in Leo is in Hayz.
 

prudence

Paradoxx, thanks for the link!!

Minderwiz, well, that pretty much sums it up for us...we may not even need to buy that book now. :D Thanks ever so much for this. That's a lot of information, and I hope it will be okay to formulate some questions from it, should any arise...The Mars business has me a wee bit confused, but I think that is only due to the Greeks wanting it as a male planet. (it is a feminine planet, yes?)
edited to say, I think I will be referencing this post for a long time to come!! There is so much in here that I was needing to know, but had no clue how to even ask the question!!


Thank you all for so much help. :D :D :D
 

rainwolf

Yes thank you.

Just to clarify though...when one has a diurnal chart, planets such as mars should be on the opposite side, and saturn included? This is the question similia raised and it seemed to complicate the answer. So a nocturnal chart would have mars and saturn above the horizon (basically opposite of the hemisphere)?
 

paradoxx

according to this website http://www.astrology-x-files.com/astro-concepts/sect.htm Mars is preferred opposite the sun because of the excessive 'hot and dry' quality needs to be cooled down as opposed to Saturn and its 'cool and wet' quality needing to be warmed up.

The article explains optimal dirunal and nocturnal positions as well as some other favoriable positions (i.e. Mars in a masculine sign, nocturnal, near the midheaven is mentioned).