HudsonGray
Just curious about whether anyone's tried this with a deck yet. The Zentangle doodling fad has come up with some really nice looking art but I've not seen it applied to making tarot cards.
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Zentangle art on tarot?
HudsonGray
You can't copyright doodling, what they have legal title to is the name Zentangle, and potentially the full patterns for figures.
Individual doodling techniques can't be copyrighted (a shell shape, a leaf shape, cross hatching, etc.). I too have doodled similar things in the past but never got that creative with it prior to the books coming out.
Individual doodling techniques can't be copyrighted (a shell shape, a leaf shape, cross hatching, etc.). I too have doodled similar things in the past but never got that creative with it prior to the books coming out.
Hemera
I love Zentangle and I´ve bought a few books about it but I don´t think there is a Tarot deck with Zentangle on it yet. Maybe some day? Although it would be more fun to make one instead of buying one ready made and trying to read with it.You can't copyright doodling, what they have legal title to is the name Zentangle, and potentially the full patterns for figures.
Individual doodling techniques can't be copyrighted (a shell shape, a leaf shape, cross hatching, etc.). I too have doodled similar things in the past but never got that creative with it prior to the books coming out.
Yes, I think it is a bit odd how some Zentangle authors insist on having copyright on something that one can see everywhere: in carpets, on glass doors, on old stone floors, in old Ancient Greek jars in any museum, in the nature. I agree that the only thing they can have a legal copyright to is, like you said, the name Zentangle and potentially the full patterns for some of the more complicated figures
Zephyros
The site says very little about what this is, or what the kit includes. Isn't copyrighting something like this akin to copyrighting a pencil, and everything written or drawn with it? This gives a bit more information, but it keeps saying that any deviation wouldn't be considered an "offical" Zentangle. Does that matter? If so, why? What does a "Zentangle teacher" teach?
uruz
While IP is not the most complex area of law, and is definitely one of the more attractive ones for laymen to think about, I can assure you that there is a 99.99999% chance that anyone drawing legal conclusions (e.g., this or that is copyrightable) on the internet has no clue what they are talking about. The fact that I see at least three different countries represented here (and all weighing in on IP law) certainly gave me a hearty chuckle (laws aren't the same in different countries). I know it's well-meaning, but if anyone isn't sure whether or not something they are going to do is legal, ask a lawyer, not the internet.
I'll try and break it down the best I can (for America), but you shouldn't listen to me if you actually think you're going to be doing anything questionable.
A technique is not copyrightable. A trade name is not copyrightable. If they were, we wouldn't have patents and trademarks (makes sense).
They have probably registered their name as a trademark, and even if they hadn't I wouldn't go around using it.
The artist certainly owns a copyright in any drawing or doodle he has made. You automatically own a copyright in the squiggly lines you make in the margins of your notes in class. Probably in your shopping list, too.
As for techniques, those would be covered by patent law. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that "a new type of doodling" isn't going to pass muster in the Federal Circuit even if they somehow bribed the right people at the patent office. Also, patents aren't like copyrights; they aren't automatic. They would have to actually register their new doodling technique before they could protect it, and like I said I don't think that's going to happen.
So, that said, if you drew a picture that kind of looked like their pictures, you'd probably be ok.
Actually, I just looked at their website. They have apparently registered their trademark in their name, but again that would be stupid to use even if they hadn't. They have also applied for a patent for their teaching method. Notice that's not the techniques they are teaching, but the way they are teaching them.
More importantly, they even say you can sell anything you make with their techniques! (http://www.zentangle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=29) So even if you don't believe me when I say that you probably could anyway (and like I said, you shouldn't believe me!), they don't care and aren't going to come after you. That link seems like a pretty good overview of what they are claiming, and while some of the ways they word things are a bit misleading, they don't seem to be overclaiming anything. Check it out. They appear to be a rare case of a company protecting what they have a right to diligently while at the same time encouraging the wide and free dissemination of what they don't have a right to.
I'll try and break it down the best I can (for America), but you shouldn't listen to me if you actually think you're going to be doing anything questionable.
A technique is not copyrightable. A trade name is not copyrightable. If they were, we wouldn't have patents and trademarks (makes sense).
They have probably registered their name as a trademark, and even if they hadn't I wouldn't go around using it.
The artist certainly owns a copyright in any drawing or doodle he has made. You automatically own a copyright in the squiggly lines you make in the margins of your notes in class. Probably in your shopping list, too.
As for techniques, those would be covered by patent law. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that "a new type of doodling" isn't going to pass muster in the Federal Circuit even if they somehow bribed the right people at the patent office. Also, patents aren't like copyrights; they aren't automatic. They would have to actually register their new doodling technique before they could protect it, and like I said I don't think that's going to happen.
So, that said, if you drew a picture that kind of looked like their pictures, you'd probably be ok.
Actually, I just looked at their website. They have apparently registered their trademark in their name, but again that would be stupid to use even if they hadn't. They have also applied for a patent for their teaching method. Notice that's not the techniques they are teaching, but the way they are teaching them.
More importantly, they even say you can sell anything you make with their techniques! (http://www.zentangle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=29) So even if you don't believe me when I say that you probably could anyway (and like I said, you shouldn't believe me!), they don't care and aren't going to come after you. That link seems like a pretty good overview of what they are claiming, and while some of the ways they word things are a bit misleading, they don't seem to be overclaiming anything. Check it out. They appear to be a rare case of a company protecting what they have a right to diligently while at the same time encouraging the wide and free dissemination of what they don't have a right to.
Laura Borealis
What they say now isn't what they've said in the past. It has changed. More than once I believe.
There's a history of legal threats. I can't find the one blog I was thinking of, it seems to have been deleted.
I just would steer clear of any mention of them in connection with a creative work.
There's a history of legal threats. I can't find the one blog I was thinking of, it seems to have been deleted.
I just would steer clear of any mention of them in connection with a creative work.
Debra
It's a kind of conscious, disciplined doodling. Sort of the equivalent of crocheting one granny square, then going on with the rest of your day. The whole point of it is, the experience, not the product. If I understand correctly, the finished piece (the tangle) is throw-away (that's the "zen").
For a few weeks I did one a night before turning out the light, kept them around to use as bookmarks. It doesn't matter what they look like really. The patterns just make it easier to fill the small space of the card (I used 3 x 5 index cards). And the geometry is a nice practice. Like crocheting.
For a few weeks I did one a night before turning out the light, kept them around to use as bookmarks. It doesn't matter what they look like really. The patterns just make it easier to fill the small space of the card (I used 3 x 5 index cards). And the geometry is a nice practice. Like crocheting.
