HEAT deck - inception

trzes

I apologize if I sounded as if I was accusing anyone personal. I for my part only tried to work out the matter of factual side effects that I think would appear (without being intended of course) if the deck would be designed as an entirely new one at that stage, instead of reusing (some or more) images.

Gregory didn't address you either, daphne, I am sure. You stated clearly before that you are not in favor of reusing images.

It might be a good idea though to delay the project even further. If this will be decided to be a new deck without reused images, then it could be done INSTEAD of a 6th AT deck in a year's time or so.

daphne

trzes said:
I apologize if I sounded as if I was accusing anyone personal. I for my part only tried to work out the matter of factual side effects that I think would appear (without being intended of course) if the deck would be designed as an entirely new one at that stage, instead of reusing (some or more) images.

Gregory didn't address you either, daphne, I am sure. You stated clearly before that you are not in favor of reusing images.

It might be a good idea though to delay the project even further. If this will be decided to be a new deck without reused images, then it could be done INSTEAD of a 6th AT deck in a year's time or so.

No worries, no need for apologize. It is a place with so many different minds and different views.

I just dont want to have this speculation on my shoulders, that I kill some deck. I love decks, I could not stand the idea. That is why I leave Heat on hold till the other is done.
If ever done, it will not be i-n-s-t-e-a-d of 6thAT, but just HEAT, another deck all together. The 6thAT deck will be an AT-labeled deck and at this moment it is considered only digital.

trzes

daphne said:
No worries, no need for apologize. It is a place with so many different minds and different views.

I just dont want to have this speculation on my shoulders, that I kill some deck. I love decks, I could not stand the idea. That is why I leave Heat on hold till the other is done.
If ever done, it will not be i-n-s-t-e-a-d of 6thAT, but just HEAT, another deck all together. The 6thAT deck will be an AT-labeled deck and at this moment it is considered only digital.

Not instead of the 5th of course, in case there was a misunderstanding. But maybe there might be HEAT but no next AT in the future, as there might be another AT but no other HEAT in 2016 and so forth to avoid that "mutual cannibalism". But that might not be that much of an issue after all with more people signing up for both now.

gregory

. . . .

daphne

Cenozoic said:
I work at what you could call a printing company. I'm not trying to argue with you, so let's be clear about that. So, cardstock paper for home printers are less thick, but they are made that way so they won't jam up your home printer. And some cartridges can be bought for relatively cheap (less than $20) depending on your printer model.

Each country has their laws on copyright, yet I am just informing you that in the country where you live, there is an automatic copyright on the things you create. The original cards you make will be in your country, and it will go under whatever copyright law is there (and as for digital artworks, the first digital print you make would be considered copyrighted since it's now there's a physical copy of it). By stating that there is no copyright, you're taking away this automatic copyright that people have. It seems like you think that since nothing can fully be protected, so you're just going to just let all the barriers down, and let the bears in.

Photos on the internet are under copyright too, even without a copyright symbol. Some old paintings are still being disputed as being either being still copyrighted or under public domain. It's a misconception to think that everything on the internet is free to take unfortunately.

I'm just informing you of these things so you'll know more about them. You're running the show here, and I'm trying to be of some help. You have just informed everyone that you have no means of control over these cards, and that they'll be pirated somehow one way or the other. Everyone will turn to you for these issues, since you're the leader of this project. And if someone did say that "someone copied my card, fix it", are you going to tell them that it had no copyright in the first place, so you're not held accountable? But since you've made the decision not to have copyright, so you're still held accountable for that decision. If the card creator still had copyright over it, they could try to do something about it themselves, with or without your help in the matter. That is reasonable for both you and that individual.

For the Creative Commons License, it's basically a public copyright license, and depending on the license, you can copy or change the work that you wouldn't otherwise get to change if it was under normal copyright by it's owner. And the owner can freely apply the Creative Commons License to their work, and then everyone else can use their work under the conditions of that certain license. There are different licenses that do different things. I hope your brain is okay, because the creative commons IS about copyrights unfortunately.

I hope my brain is ok. I think I sounded retarded. I said no copyrights and then talked about the Creative Commons Licence (CCL). Probably I failed to express myself, I apologize.
I try again:
I consider the copyright thing for this kind of patch project a sort of irony. Cards will be out there, people can always take and modify them, regardless the © specifications. What then? Drama? But of course we should discuss options (like CCL or other) and if most of the creators consider that it is foolish not to have a copyright, I think they have to offer o solution. I dont have one in this regard. Just to be a solution that does not contradict the basic idea of such project, to be free to be printed. In any place, online, at house, whatever the preference will be.

Regarding the photos and paintings, I was not talking about all together. No, no. I never said I have the idea what is online is free to use or abuse. Actually, is the other way around. Most of the art, photos etc online is copyrighted and absolutely should not be consider common goods. I said that some photos and old paintings are free to use. I must have been used "some", I know exactly what I wanted to say. S-o-m-e photos posted on specific sites are allowed for free to use and I wondered what are the dangers if we do the same with the cards of such a deck.

Thank you for trying to help, I appreciate. For such a deck I think we need to find a balance between all the cautions necessary to be taken and the desire to make it available.

daphne

gregory said:
I would VERY much agree with this. I will go on record now as saying there is no way I want my cards for the 5th AT deck to be used for this in ANY way. Though looking at this thread I am losing enthusiasm already. If it WERE to be done and profits needed to go somewhere other than printerstudio, they could be signed over to a charity like Medecins sans Frontiers, though.

No 5thAT cards will be part of HEAT. Other deck, other cards.

Not taking now in consideration the idea of profit.

gregory said:
I raised the concern earlier that starting talking about this now would adversely affect the 5th AT deck.

I note that exactly one person has posted in the threads for that since this thread started - and that was only to say "nice card". (I kind of lie, as I just this minute did in another tab, but that was another issue entirely.) I have a nasty suspicion that death of that deck is imminent. What a shame.

That deck is going on, it is a long way and people make their cards in their time, of course within a limit.

I would no mistake the heated discussion about printing as the measure of "normal" creation presence for 5thAT deck.
Things cooled down in discussion forum as soon as the decision about no printing was made. After the weekend things were much quieter, I know because I follow closely the process. It was quiet before I started this thread, except some new ideas about printing, which this thread took over. Thread which now has, in turn, some heated discussion, irony, also about printing.

At the moment things were mostly discussed and settled for 5thAT, why should be anymore hundreds of posts there. Let's make the 5th cards now, we have all the guidelines.

daphne

Luna-Ocean said:
I agree with this so many people get so hung up on copyrights and the like which wont serve anyone making a fun to use deck when it's finished?

This is such a delicate way of saying something I started to wonder today about.

Maybe let's try not to suck all the fun out of it an become some poor mechanisms committed to be in a project we loath.

daphne

reall said:
@daphne Agree!^^ more the merrier!^^ (and my fav less job per person!^^ lolz ))))
I think we may start when we get enough people?^^))))
Then we can decide on all details and time?!^^ ))

Luv no theme no profit!^^
I would add no edge rule as well so everyone can decide will have it or not?^^))
I’m looking forwards to see various cards design and how it looks on print!^^ )))))))

(sorry we cant use card design already made for 5AT, because it will take more time to make another card, and I will probably need to chose different card to prevent ending with same design! facepalm but understand the reason,,,
btw new question what if someone decide to withdraw card from 5AT and transfer it here? (doubt anyone would do that but just for the records) same no?)))

@Cenozioc I agree with you!^^
imo we do need copyrights! (even we all know that cant stop piracy but same is for law so do we don’t need a law?)))
you look like you know about that so you can formulate copyright note something like Everyone should get credits for their work and keep copyrights but give permission for printing and selling!))) and everyone can print deck for himself but not for resell or use art in other way for commercial and public use? something like that,

Most of the details are for later, if we start.
But there will no be 5thAT cards used.

daphne

gregory said:
See my post above. This may finish the AT deck. Which was going so well. This could have waited. Should have waited - if anyone else cares about the 5th AT deck more than about getting into print.

This broke my heart.

daphne

trzes said:
My point of view is quite the opposite, obviously. I would explicitly encourage everyone from the 5th AT deck to reuse their images here. This would not affect anything about 5th AT deck, but only give the majority of participants there the opportunity to have their cards as part of a properly printed deck in a similar context, but under a different label.

No. No 5thAT cards is to be used for HEAT, at least if I am to be part of the project. It is another deck, all together. From the start.
The participants of the 5thAT know they will have a digital deck only. If they want printed deck, they will make another card for another deck meant for print.

trzes said:
Otherwise the HEAT deck is going to be a renegade project indeed (closrapexa’s words) regardless of any claims we make. It will dilute the contribution to the 5th AT deck or even kill it, as gregory has pointed out. And it will do so, even if the actual making of the HEAT deck will be delayed past the end of the other one. People will of course choose where to contribute if they can’t contribute in both without double effort, and they will do so regardless of the delay because they will know that later the HEAT deck will be made.

Just my two cents. I will sit and wait how you decide.

Solved the dilution speculation: HEAT will NOT start before 5thAT is finished.
Please focus on creating its cards, I love that project.

Here we could continue to talk theory, nothing yet to materialize, but maybe bright ideas will surface.