Difference between Chesed and Malkuth

sworm09

This is has been giving me a few problems lately, perhaps because I'm making it overtly complicated. I've been reading Dion Fortune's book, and I think I have an idea of what the difference is, but I'm not sure.

I'm confused because Chesed is the first manifestation of form below the Abyss, but Malkuth is when things come into full on manifestation. So is Chesed the idea of manifestation rather than manifestation itself?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to see Chesed as the principal of stability, which allows us to perceive it. We can only perceive things below the Abyss that seem to have some form of stability. Malkuth is different because Malkuth is concrete form.

I'm still a little confused, but am I on the right track?
 

Zephyros

Well, I like to think of it this way. Chesed is the number Four, the number of the letters of the Tetragrammaton, the four elements, the fours suits, etc. Four is the number of the material out of which the universe is constructed, the inert "stuff." But it is still in a state of chaos and unformed, it is literally "loving kindness" in that it gives us everything there is to give. Imagine a universe in which everything was fire, everything was water, everything was air and everything was earth all at the same time. You couldn't actually do anything with that.

The "reason" for Chesed is of course Chochma and Binah, and Keter. Chochma is the first movement of the universe, the energy that makes things spin. Chochma enters Binah, which is the "vessel," the outer shell, if you will. After that comes the stage where you start filling the universe with stuff, and that is Chesed. Geburah is what incites Chesed to mix things up, and so limits its unlimited outpouring of material, and so on down the Tree.

Malkuth comes at a far later stage, in which everything has been done, and is the final solidification of everything, in forms that we can see. The reason we can't "see" Chesed, is that we are in Malkuth, where nothing is completely one element, everything is a mixture of everything. Don't forget, too, that Malkuth is on the Middle Piller, and contains the final versions of everything that was conceived of in Keter, and so it has a special relationship with it that Chesed lacks.
 

Richard

Have you read the sections on Chesed and Malkuth in Closrapexa's post http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=201798? In a sense, Malkuth is implicit (or concealed) in Chesed. Chesed contains the building blocks of Malkuth, but they are not yet assembled into the structure of Malkuth. In this connection it is interesting that the sum of the first four integers is 10, and also the spelling of Heh has the value 10. (For the connection of Heh with the 4th Sephirah, there is a good discussion in Paul Case's The Book of Tokens http://home.cogeco.ca/~gwotton/library/bot1.pdf.

ETA. I see Closrapexa hath already appeared. Do check out Case's book if you haven't already.
 

Richard

The Chesed stage of creation is described in Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The world has been created, but it is in a state of chaos. Paradoxically, it can be described as formless form. It is somewhat like the tabula rasa theory, that the mind is all there in the newborn baby, but it is a blank slate before it registers the impressions of experience.

(Actually, I'm a closet Bible pounder. }))
 

sworm09

Thanks for the replies!

I think I'm getting a grasp on what's going on here:

Kether is endless and absolute, Chokmah is the initial force coming from that endlessness, Binah captures that force and gives it a vessel, or a shape. Implicit in Binah is Chesed as once the force is given a shape, it becomes an abstract form which is capable of being scattered and refined by Geburah and brought into balance in Tiphareth before being felt in the personality triad of Netzach, Hod, and Yesod and then finally becoming concrete in Malkuth.

Do I have this right?
 

ravenest

Hmmm ... I just posted here and it vanished ???? Weird, after the number of posts I have made one would think I know how to do it ... I thought I did the same as always but ... gone!

Anyway, I think that is a fair brief statement you made

One of the differences I see in the 2 spheres is Chokmah is the first of these ideas we can comprehend as it is an ideal or pattern ( 3 dimensions) that we exist in and know ... but still a concept (the other spheres are ideas and concepts of dimensions we don't materially exist in).

So with Chokmah (still 'unmanifest') we can comprehend and experience the idea with our mind but in Malkuth ('manifest') we comprehend and experience that 'idea' in a physical realm with our senses.
 

sworm09

Hmmm ... I just posted here and it vanished ???? Weird, after the number of posts I have made one would think I know how to do it ... I thought I did the same as always but ... gone!

Anyway, I think that is a fair brief statement you made

One of the differences I see in the 2 spheres is Chokmah is the first of these ideas we can comprehend as it is an ideal or pattern ( 3 dimensions) that we exist in and know ... but still a concept (the other spheres are ideas and concepts of dimensions we don't materially exist in).

So with Chokmah (still 'unmanifest') we can comprehend and experience the idea with our mind but in Malkuth ('manifest') we comprehend and experience that 'idea' in a physical realm with our senses.

Ok, so in the Tarot the Fours show this concept expressed through the four worlds.

So 4 of Wands is abstract spiritual stability, the 4 of Cups is emotional/intuitive stability, the 4 of Swords is mental stability, and the 4 of Pentacles is material stability.

Now I become confused again. The 4 of Wands is the purest version of Chesed because it's in Atziluth; it's abstract stability and the form of the will..something has been accomplished here. The 4 of Cups is kind of too much form. Cups are associated with Binah and Chesed heavily relates to Binah, so we have emotional form and stability, which isn't concrete. 4 of Swords is stability of mind/personality and is an abstract peace for the mind.

Ok, it gets confusing with the Pents. With Pents falling into Assiah and thus Malkuth, the 4 of Pents is Chesed from OUR point of view in Malkuth, right? So the 4 of Pents represents material and physical stability.

So if I have this right, in Assiah Chesed is a provider of material wealth and stability: having a home, the infrastructure of society, financial stability, basically the form of the shape provided by Binah in Assiah, the 3 of Pents: shaping the material world from the fluctuations of the 2...so that would be responsibility, construction, applying ourselves to tasks.

So what I'm getting at is that Binah from out perspective is taking on the responsibility of shaping the mundane world which provides the structure and stability that Chesed in Assiah represents. In the structure and stability that Chesed in Assiah represents, there is a little bit of Malkuth in Assiah touched upon as well, right? Malkuth in Assiah is the manifestation of manifestation (huh?) So it's super material wealth, stability, comfort, and form.

So I see how Chesed in Assiah (building structure and stability) leads to Malkuth in Assiah (wealth, comfort, success), but I don't exactly understand WHY Chesed leads to Malkuth. Is it because of the fact that the abstract form is destined to become concrete?
 

ravenest

I don't know if the abstract form is 'destined' to be concrete. I do believe that a 'concrete form' has gone through a stage of the abstract form to become concrete ( duh! ... to self :laugh: ).

The destined part may have something to do with 'momentum' associated with the concept of the 'Lightning Flash" ? But not all forms evolve fully through the stages. If the energy stops flowing through the form it becomes a type of 'Qlippoth'; empty shells or a material forms without life with variant decay rates.

If the whole process doesn't have appropriate 'feedback' from the material realm it also becomes a type of 'qlippoth'; a form that is active but inappropriate for the material realm, considering the time and environment (e.g. in the case of 'Reviewing the Internal Map' *).

I'd like to spend more time on detailed answers to your post (like the difference between mind and personality (which I see as a type of biofeedback loop around Malkuth) ...but I actually am supposed to be at work at the moment ... :shhh:

* See ; 'The Four Psychological Truths'
 

Richard

Maybe the confusion comes from there being different models of the four worlds. I'm not used to talking about Qabalah, so forgive me if I make a hash of everything. It's confusing enough intrinsically without my poor attempt at explanation, but I'll try anyhow.

An older model is that of the single tree. (You are no doubt very familiar with all this, but I'll go through it briefly for the sake of anyone who might not be.) For example, the 10 Sephiroth may be broken down into four groups like this: The Triad consisting of Sephiroth 1, 2, and 3 is in Atziluth, 4, 5, 6 in Briah, and 7, 8, 9 in Yetzirah. That leaves only Malkuth in Assiyah. However, each Sephirah contains at least all four pips of that denomination. Thus, for example, Geburah contains all the fives of each Tarot suit. Thus if the pips of denomination five are taken to represent Geburah in Atziluth, Geburah in Briah, etc; then the Geburah in this model of the Tree contains four other sub-Geburahs, one for each suit/element. In addition, Geburah (and thus all five Geburahs) is usually taken to be in Briah. So, for example, the 5 of Wands is in Atziluth because it is Wands, but it is also in Briah because it is in Geburah. This is not necessarily untrue, but it stretches the brain mercilessly.

The way out of the mess is the four Trees model, one for each world. For example, the 4 of Pentacles is not Chesed from some perspective way down below in Sephirah 10, it is Chesed in Assiyah, not merely Chesed from the perspective of Malkuth. The latter may be true in the single Tree model, in which Malkuth is essentially the same as Assiyah, but it can be misleading, not to mention confusing.

Something else to consider is whether we are taking the Tree to be a model of the Microcosm or the Macrocosm or something seemingly in-between, such as the structure of society. The Tree will adapt to almost any scenario, but to mix up the idea of Pentacles as the human body along with Pents as money and Pents as the physical universe, may be necessary in divination, but from a Qabalistic perspective, it invites confusion, at least in my brain, which stays in a state of confusion most of the time anyhow. :confused:

Your confusion mainly comes from over-analyzing, I think. It all comes together eventually, but it can't be rushed. By no means do I have it all together, but I try to apply Einstein's dictum: Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler.
 

Zephyros

http://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_08_2013/post-232196-0-05426700-1376450822.jpeg

So 4 of Wands is abstract spiritual stability, the 4 of Cups is emotional/intuitive stability, the 4 of Swords is mental stability, and the 4 of Pentacles is material stability.

I don't know if I would use the term "stability" exactly. Chesed is far from stable; it is a bubbling, frothing mess, stable only in relation to what is above the Abyss which, strictly speaking, doesn't exist.

Now I become confused again. The 4 of Wands is the purest version of Chesed because it's in Atziluth; it's abstract stability and the form of the will..something has been accomplished here. The 4 of Cups is kind of too much form. Cups are associated with Binah and Chesed heavily relates to Binah, so we have emotional form and stability, which isn't concrete. 4 of Swords is stability of mind/personality and is an abstract peace for the mind.

I don't know if the Four of Cups isn't concrete, but rather self-indulgent. It is feeling for the sake of it. In Swords, however, thought for the sake of it relates to contemplative thought, meditation, which is pretty good (is this the one with the tomb? I can never remember).

Ok, it gets confusing with the Pents. With Pents falling into Assiah and thus Malkuth, the 4 of Pents is Chesed from OUR point of view in Malkuth, right? So the 4 of Pents represents material and physical stability.

While Assiah and Malkuth have much in common, it should be remembered what model of the Tree you're using for the purpose of that specific musing, and to stick to it. Strictly speaking, Assiah is not Malkuth while Binah is not Briah. Apples and oranges. While the Tree can be divided into four worlds internally, connecting that model with the four trees model can be quite confusing. However, this isn't to say that there is any contradiction here. The Tree changes according to the observer, like an atom. It does exist both simultaneously and top to bottom, depending on what practical use you have for it. Not for naught did the Kabbalists invent many different models over the years. Plus, using the divinatory meanings as an analysis tool is very noisy for my poor brain.

Since we are in Malkuth in Assiah, then "our" Chesed is the one that actually builds reality, but not wholly, since all worlds exist together. Indeed, they would have to, as you can't build a brick wall merely by having physical bricks. You have to conceive of the result, you have to want to do it, and plan it. I feel like I'm talking in circles, but there it is. Even if the four worlds model, there is a great deal of communication between all four worlds, even if "officially" there isn't.

So I see how Chesed in Assiah (building structure and stability) leads to Malkuth in Assiah (wealth, comfort, success), but I don't exactly understand WHY Chesed leads to Malkuth. Is it because of the fact that the abstract form is destined to become concrete?
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I wouldn't say destined, but rather "has no choice." When using the symbolism of the line to discuss Chochma, it is important to remember that Chochma and Binah are created simultaneously, one cannot exist without the other, and the same law applies to all the Sephiroth. If Chochma is a line, a line has to go somewhere, otherwise it stays a point. Imagine drawing a line that goes nowhere, it is an impossibility. So, Binah is the "somewhere" Chochma goes to. Chochma creates the space around it in order to exist. Binah may be a vessel, but one that cannot exist empty, as it is created by the same stuff that fills it (look up the process of Tzimzum, the contraction).

The same law applies to every step of the Tree. Geburah is not something that is introduced after Chesed simply because someone was feeling bored, it is a natural consequence of it. If Chesed is the "loving kindness" of all the elements and all the material of the universe, those elements in and of themselves begin to conflict with one another, thus limiting Chesed and making them mix. Every Sephira causes an imbalance which is set aright by its counterpart on the other side. Far from being "created" the Tree "tumbles."

After Geburah comes Tiphareth, which is abstractly the best anything can get, it is the Plan in its most perfect form. Now, by analogy, let's remember that the Princess, associated with Swords and Vau, sit at Tiphareth. This implies Tiphareth is a theory, a blueprint, a concept. Now, the transfer to Netzach from Tiphareth is obscure to me, and I would rather not go biblical and say it is because of the forbidden fruit. Still, we can rape the bible without thumping it.

When the garden of Eden was created in Tiphareth, all the abstractions above became "real" in the sense that there were plants and animals and later on, people. However, when sh*t becomes real, it is no longer a theory, and if you put an perfect, attractive young man and a perfectly beautiful lady buck naked in nature, they will act as they are wont to (they'll hump like rabbits). Even in Paradise, things progress according to their nature, and the Tree continues its downward tumble. I wouldn't see it as a "fall" exactly, but rather a natural consequence of its inherent structure.

So, Netzach is the natural continuation of Tiphareth, and mirrors Chesed, only on a lower plane. Here is where hard work, death, time, the mechanics of procreation and suffering are introduced. Again, this is not because of any plan, but because Tiphareth was so wonderfully perfect.

Hod again balances Netzach in the same way Binah balances Chochma, and is its counterpart, since that "line" of suffering needs to go somewhere, and Adam finds a degree of solace for the loss of Paradise in the arms of his wife. Not that everything is perfect here, obviously, as Eve herself has tumbled down, the creative qualities of Binah now come at the price of birth pains.

Still, the balance is achieved and yet again the Tree follows its tendency toward imbalance, balance, middle pillar as it has already done above. We are now in Yesod, the realm of the subconscious, where all the ideas of the upper parts of the Tree funnel down. There is another tumble here, since what we have is something like a theory of manifestation pertaining to a theory of perfection (Tiphareth) pertaining to a theory of abstraction (Keter). In Yesod are all the ingredients that make up Malkuth but one, actual solidity. Being so full and satisfied, Yesod has no choice but to manifest, as all that energy has to go somewhere (this is why this Sephira is associated with the genitals, a "burning desire.") and that somewhere is Malkuth.

And that, is how Chesed turns into Malkuth. Because there isn't any alternative.